How Does ΔS(total) = R*lnK Align with Entropy Being Zero at Equilibrium?

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In summary, the equation R*lnK makes sense when the system is at equilibrium, but does not make sense when the system is not at equilibrium.
  • #1
jsmith613
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Given that at equilibrium total entropy change = 0
how does the following equation make sense
ΔS(total) = R*lnK
if ΔS(total) is 0?
thanks
 
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  • #2
jsmith613 said:
how does the following equation make sense
ΔS(total) = R*lnK

Units don't match, so it doesn't make sense. Units of entropy are JK-1, units of ideal gas constant are JK-1mol-1.
 
  • #3
no units of entropy are J K-1 mol-1
 
  • #4
oh Standard entropy = R lnK
my bad

nonetheless how can a standard entropy change of zero have an equation R*lnK
 
  • #5
Questions to ask yourself:

1.) What is K in your equation?

2.) What does K equal when the system is at equilibrium?

If you do this, the answer will fall right into your lap.
 
  • #6
1) K is the equilibrium constant
2) when the system is at equilibrium K = 1

...so your saying that ONLY at the point of equilibrium does total entropy change = zero
...i am still confused
sorry :(
 
  • #7
Mike H said:
Questions to ask yourself:

1.) What is K in your equation?

2.) What does K equal when the system is at equilibrium?

If you do this, the answer will fall right into your lap.

in fact K does NOT nessecaryily = 1 at equilibrium
...therefore how can the two be related
 
  • #9
I have to say I've never seen this particular twist in presentation of thermo before, which is why my earlier "shot-from-the-hip" answer isn't right. And I should probably read more carefully...

It's as if your text/reference material is trying to rework what is normally seen via Gibbs free energy statements in terms of entropy for whatever inexplicable reason - if you'll remember, we have the well-known equality

ΔG = ΔG° + RT*ln(Q)

where ΔG = 0 at equilibrium, and as Q → K at equilibrium, we have

ΔG° = -RT*ln(K).

It seems as if your text is trying to do something similar in terms of ΔS and ΔS° for whatever reason, such that

ΔS = ΔS° - R*ln(K),

so when ΔS = 0,

ΔS° = R*ln(K).

I suppose it's valid, although I've never seen it presented this particular way, at least that I can recall.
 
  • #10
Mike H said:
I have to say I've never seen this particular twist in presentation of thermo before, which is why my earlier "shot-from-the-hip" answer isn't right. And I should probably read more carefully...

It's as if your text/reference material is trying to rework what is normally seen via Gibbs free energy statements in terms of entropy for whatever inexplicable reason - if you'll remember, we have the well-known equality

ΔG = ΔG° + RT*ln(Q)

where ΔG = 0 at equilibrium, and as Q → K at equilibrium, we have

ΔG° = -RT*ln(K).

It seems as if your text is trying to do something similar in terms of ΔS and ΔS° for whatever reason, such that

ΔS = ΔS° - R*ln(K),

so when ΔS = 0,

ΔS° = R*ln(K).

I suppose it's valid, although I've never seen it presented this particular way, at least that I can recall.

what is the difference between ΔS° and ΔS
and are they both calculated in the same way
 

FAQ: How Does ΔS(total) = R*lnK Align with Entropy Being Zero at Equilibrium?

What is entropy and how does it relate to equilibrium?

Entropy is a measure of the disorder or randomness in a system. It is often associated with the second law of thermodynamics, which states that the total entropy of a closed system will always increase over time until it reaches equilibrium. This means that as a system moves towards equilibrium, its level of disorder or entropy will also increase.

Can entropy be decreased or reversed?

In a closed system, it is not possible to decrease or reverse the overall entropy. However, it is possible to decrease the entropy in one part of the system while increasing it in another part. This is known as local entropy decrease, and it is often achieved through energy input and work.

How does entropy affect the predictability of a system?

As a system moves towards equilibrium, its level of entropy increases and its predictability decreases. This is because as disorder increases, it becomes more difficult to accurately predict the state of the system at a given time. Therefore, entropy is often used as a measure of the randomness or unpredictability of a system.

What is the relationship between entropy and energy?

Entropy and energy are closely related. The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of a closed system will always increase, but this increase can be driven by energy input. In other words, the increase in entropy is directly proportional to the amount of energy that is added to the system.

How does entropy play a role in natural processes?

Entropy plays a crucial role in natural processes. In nature, systems tend towards equilibrium, which means that their entropy increases over time. This is why natural processes like diffusion and chemical reactions occur spontaneously, as they are moving towards a state of higher entropy. In living organisms, maintaining low entropy is essential for survival, and this is achieved through energy input and metabolism.

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