How does one find the dual of a matrix?

  • #1
grzz
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TL;DR Summary
Does a matrix have a dual?
How does one find the dual of a matrix?
Thanks.
 
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  • #2
Dual in what sense?
 
  • #3
martinbn said:
Dual in what sense?
In the sense that,
dual matrix times matrix = number, maybe complex times (unit matrix).
 
  • #4
grzz said:
In the sense that,
dual matrix times matrix = number, maybe complex times (unit matrix).
Can you specify precisely how this dual matrix differs from the more familiar inverse matrix?
 
  • #5
renormalize said:
Can you specify precisely how this dual matrix differs from the more familiar inverse matrix?
Thanks for your help.
But the trouble is that I never met with a dual matrix. All I know is that a dual matrix obeys the relation I gave in my 2nd post.
 
  • #6
grzz said:
In the sense that,
dual matrix times matrix = number, maybe complex times (unit matrix).
The dual matrix in the first sense is ill-defined. For example, if ##A## is a ##3\times 2## matrix, there does not exist an ##m\times n## matrix ##B## such that ##AB## is a number.

In the second sense you mentioned, I suppose the dual of a complex square matrix ##A## is the adjugate of ##A##, ##\operatorname{adj} A##; indeed, ##A(\operatorname{adj} A) = \det(A) I##.
 
  • #7
grzz said:
Thanks for your help.
But the trouble is that I never met with a dual matrix. All I know is that a dual matrix obeys the relation I gave in my 2nd post.
There are many pairings that could be considered dual. A dual matrix to a matrix ##A## as a term isn't defined. You can transpose a matrix ##A^\dagger## , possibly invert a matrix ##A^{-1}##, conjugate complex matrices ##\overline{A},## or write ##A=\sum_{k=1}^r u_k\otimes v^*_k## and consider ##\sum_{k=1}^r u_k^*\otimes v_k## as its dual.
 
  • #8
Thanks Euge.
I forgot to mention that I was dealing with four vectors and square 4x4 matrices.
Hence
 
  • #9
Hence your reply fits what I was asking for.

Another query of mine is whether there is a cross product of 4-vectors like there is with 3-vectors.

Thanks so.much.
 
  • #10
grzz said:
Hence your reply fits what I was asking for.

Another query of mine is whether there is a cross product of 4-vectors like there is with 3-vectors.

Thanks so.much.
The cross product in ##\mathbb{R}^3## is a Lie product of a three-dimensional, real, simple Lie algebra. You can define several Lie products on ##\mathbb{R}^4## but none of them belongs to a simple Lie algebra. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that you don't even get all vectors as the result of such a product, i.e. some vectors cannot be retrieved as a result of the product.

I guess, no is the only answer that can be given without getting into details.
 
  • #11
notice that the cross product of two vectors in 3 space is an oriented choice of vector orthogonal to the plane they span. Thus a cross product in 4 space should be a vector orthogonal to the 3-space spanned by the arguments. hence one should form cross product in 4 space using three argument vectors. I.e. given three vectors U,V,W in 4- space, yes there is a cross product vector UxVxW.
 
  • #12
grzz said:
Another query of mine is whether there is a cross product of 4-vectors like there is with 3-vectors.

Thanks so.much.
The answer depends on what properties of the 3-dimensional cross product you want preserved in higher dimensions. For definiteness, let's suppose ##n \ge 3## and there is a "cross product" on ##\mathbb{R}^n##, which we assume to be a continuous map ##\times : \mathbb{R}^n \times \mathbb{R}^n \to \mathbb{R}^n## such that the cross product of any two independent vectors is nonzero, and ##v\times w## is always orthogonal to ##v## and ##w##. Then ##n## must be either ##3## or ##7##. Indeed, one can show that the existence of a cross product in this sense implies the existence of a continuous multiplication on the ##n##-sphere ##S^n## that makes ##S^n## into an ##H##-space. It was proven by J. F. Adams that ##S^n## is an ##H##-space if and only if ##n = 0, 1, 3##, or ##7##.
 
  • #13
fresh_42 said:
The cross product in ##\mathbb{R}^3## is a Lie product of a three-dimensional, real, ...
I am not familiar with Lie Algebra. But thanks any way.
 
  • #14
grzz said:
I am not familiar with Lie Algebra. But thanks any way.
That's easy in this case. Look at https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/journey-manifold-su2-part-ii/#61-The-Pauli-Matrices. There are three matrices
$$
U=\dfrac{1}{2}\begin{pmatrix}0&i\\i&0\end{pmatrix}\ ,\
V=\dfrac{1}{2}\begin{pmatrix}0&1\\-1&0\end{pmatrix}\ ,\
W=\dfrac{1}{2}\begin{pmatrix}-i&0\\0&i\end{pmatrix}
$$
If we define the Lie algebra multiplication as ##[X,Y]=X\cdot Y-Y\cdot X## then we get
$$\begin{equation*} [U,V]=W\, , \,[V,W]=U\, , \,[W,U]=V \end{equation*}$$
which is another way to look at the cross-product. It has the same properties.

You cannot do this in four dimensions, i.e. with four matrices without losing some properties.
 
  • #15
Id believe duals are assigned to vector spaces * , not to matrices, so one may speak of the dual of the column/row/kernel. Or maybe, considering a matrix as a linear map ##L : V \rightarrow W ##, there is the canonical map ##L^{*} : W^{*}\rightarrow V^{*}##.

* Or other Algebraic objects, though here vector spaces.
 
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