How far can I get if I stick to self studying physics?

[Hamiltonian]

I will be entering uni in less than a year, I will be pursuing a degree in computer science.

I want to some day be able to understand "string theory" ,"quantum gravity" (as of now these are merely buzzwords to me) and understand the standard model in and out (so QFT, QED, QCD) even GR! So far my knowledge is up-to the level of introductory physics books like Resnick Halliday Krane or University Physics by Young and Freedman. I also recently started reading the second vol of the Feynman lectures and I think I will be done with the entire series by the end of the year.

Since I will be studying comp-sci I highly doubt that I will learn the necessary math required for the topics mentioned above, so during college I will have to teach myself the math and then the physics.
So will it be possible for me to learn all those topics simply from textbooks? I won't be taking exams to see where I stand understanding wise, and ofc won't have someone teaching the subject to me.

Say I continue self learning physics approximately how many years could it take me to understand these ideas(I realize this is a bit vague as it depends on way to many factors but I guess I am just wondering if it takes a physics major about 6-7years+? how long would it take me? or is it simply impossible?)

 

[DaveE]

Why do you need to put either a time-line or a limit on your ultimate understanding of your 2nd favorite subject? Just study it as much as you can and see where you will get, see what problems develop in your education path.

BTW if you do "understand" string theory and/or quantum gravity, you'll be a shoe in for a Nobel prize. If you aren't studying theoretical physics full-time, you probably won't understand theoretical physics as well as those who are. But why would that matter?

Most students find that the workload at at university is significantly greater than what they were used to. They also, more often than not, end up re-evaluating what they want to study/do and change their major. That's OK, probably good. Just go for it, keep an open mind, and re-evaluate from time to time.

BTW, you won't ever completely understand physics or computer science, that's not how the world works. You will always be learning more. If you do know more than anyone else in a field it will be because you have specialized in that area more than others and probably neglected learning about other stuff to achieve that.

 

[Delta2]

The good thing is that usually Comp-Sci departments offer comprehensive courses in some core math that is used in theoretical physics, like Calculus & Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, Probability Theory. However you most likely won't be taught other things that are useful like Tensor Calculus or Vector Calculus. If you seem them as optional courses grab them, especially tensor calculus is the mathematical language of GR and QFT.

Other than that Comp-Sci focus on the software part of computer as far as I know but if you see optional courses on Electromagnetism gram them as well, let's not forget that the digital computers in the hardware part obey the laws of electromagnetism, and problems in Electromagnetism served as the kick start for special relativity and Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) which was the first well established Quantum Field Theory.

Last thing from me is that the last paragraph of post #2 by @DaveE I found to be really wise. You will never get an absolute 100% understanding of whatever you study, there will always be new things to understand and learn.

P.S Yes I believe one can go very far by self study, as long as you show patience, persistence and dedication. And above all LOVE, yes if you really love physics and you study them a lot one day you 'll become really good at it.

 

[symbolipoint]

Too limited to try to study all you can of Physics just from reading or studying from textbooks. My feeling is, you should stick with major field choice of Computer Science like you are planning for, enroll in all the prerequisite mathematics courses needed for your Computer Science (undergraduate) program AND for an undergraduate Physics program. You will hopefully have the time during the next four or five years to also enroll in and study the typical Physics introductory courses of Mechanics, Electricity & Magnetism , and "Modern Physics" typically required in most Physical Science related fields. You could then decide how to continue or not, in Physics courses beyond the "typically physics introductory courses of Mechanics, E&M, Modern".

 

[Hamiltonian]

Why do you need to put either a time-line or a limit on your ultimate understanding of your 2nd favorite subject? Just study it as much as you can and see where you will get, see what problems develop in your education path.

I wanted to put a time-line simply so that I don't start to slack after a bit and so that I actually have a tangible goal to work towards(also physics is infact my favorite subject!)

BTW if you do "understand" string theory and/or quantum gravity, you'll be a shoe in for a Nobel prize.

I saw a quite a few lectures by Leonard Susskind on String theory, I always assumed that would be the end of the road for theoretical physics and from there on you go into research!

Last thing from me is that the last paragraph of post #2 by @DaveE I found to be really wise. You will never get an absolute 100% understanding of whatever you study, there will always be new things to understand and learn.

I always assumed you would reach a point when your at the edge of our current knowledge of physics(I thought of it to be string theory), maybe such an edge doesn't really exist which is comforting and a bit troubling at the same time.

 

[Delta2]

I always assumed you would reach a point when your at the edge of our current knowledge of physics(I thought of it to be string theory), maybe such an edge doesn't really exist which is comforting and a bit troubling at the same time.

This edge you say exists but there are two things about it:

1. You don't know (nobody actually knows) what lies beyond that edge, so there are new things to learn and research
2. We are human beings and our knowledge has imperfections, so none of us has a 100% perfect understanding of a current theory, so in that sense there are always new things to learn and understand within a current theory.

 

[Hamiltonian]

Can I get into Physics grad school if I pass the written and oral exams without having done undergrad in physics? I skimmed through the written exams and the books required to pass such exams and they look quite doable(ofc it will be a lot of work but I would love to cover the material required!). I was looking at the requirements to get into a graduate program at MIT, It also mentions Having a B+ grade in the required subjects, does this mean I have no way around spending 4yrs taking those classes?

 

[symbolipoint]

Can I get into Physics grad school if I pass the written and oral exams without having done undergrad in physics? I skimmed through the written exams and the books required to pass such exams and they look quite doable(ofc it will be a lot of work but I would love to cover the material required!). I was looking at the requirements to get into a graduate program at MIT, It also mentions Having a B+ grade in the required subjects, does this mean I have no way around spending 4yrs taking those classes?

NO. And for later, yes, NO!

 

[CrysPhys]

I wanted to put a time-line simply so that I don't start to slack after a bit and so that I actually have a tangible goal to work towards(also physics is infact my favorite subject!)

<<Emphasis added>>

Can I get into Physics grad school if I pass the written and oral exams without having done undergrad in physics? I skimmed through the written exams and the books required to pass such exams and they look quite doable(ofc it will be a lot of work but I would love to cover the material required!). I was looking at the requirements to get into a graduate program at MIT, It also mentions Having a B+ grade in the required subjects, does this mean I have no way around spending 4yrs taking those classes?

I'll ask the obvious question: If physics is in fact your favorite subject, and if you want to pursue physics in grad school, why on Earth do you want to pursue an undergrad major in computer science, instead of physics?

 

[Hamiltonian]

I'll ask the obvious question: If physics is in fact your favorite subject, and if you want to pursue physics in grad school, why on Earth do you want to pursue an undergrad major in computer science, instead of physics?

In short I don't really have a choice.

I don't have a good enough portfolio (no Olympiads or medals in any competitions and my grades haven't been too great either) to be accepted into any ivy league college and my parents are not ready to send me abroad to study in a tier 2 college. As most Asian parents they want me to become an engineer so that I will have job security(and also because my dad is a computer engineer and believes that a degree in physics is quite useless), but after a lot of discussing I have convinced them to send me abroad to pursue physics after my undergrad(i.e, ofc if I get accepted into a graduate program somewhere) hence my question.

also I can't pursue Physics here in India because I was unable to qualify KVPY(the national level exam to get into IISC's and ISER's) so my only option left is to take computer science.

 

[Dr Transport]

So, if you were unqualified to study physics in your country as an undergrad, again, what makes you think you're qualified to be a graduate student in another country?

This thread is going down a rabbit hole ever faster...I think you are delusional.

 

[Hamiltonian]

So, if you were unqualified to study physics in your country as an undergrad, again, what makes you think you're qualified to be a graduate student in another country?

I was unable to qualify the exam here in India because the exam required Biology as well as Chemistry, I was able to do fairly well in the physics&math portion of the test, and since the exam to get into a grad school has only physics I have hope I will be able to do well on it(and I have about 4years to prepare for it).
I read at some places that if you pass the written and oral exam you can still be accepted in, even if you have done your undergrad in comp-sci, but the MIT website had a requirement of getting at least a B+ on the required courses, that's why I wanted to know if there was a way of getting around that criteria.

 

[Dr Transport]

Since we are not faculty members at MIT, you'd be better off asking them directly. My suspicion is that without a degree in physics, your chances are about the same as winning the Powerball lottery.

 

[ergospherical]

Can I get into Physics grad school if I pass the written and oral exams without having done undergrad in physics?

It says that you study at the Jedi Temple on Coruscant... can't you just pull a mind trick on whoever's interviewing you? It should work, so long as they're not a Toydarian :)

I think employment prospects are better for computer science graduates anyway! Is the reason you want to study physics purely for interest, or to enter academia? I ask because if it's for interest, you can always sneak into the physics lectures at your university in order to satisfy that urge ;)

 

[Choppy]

To the OP,

It's great if you want to self-study physics out of personal interest. That's awesome. To get to the point where most people can start to tackle the subjects you've listed at the graduate level, it takes about four years of full time study in an undergraduate physics program. Even then only about the top half or so actually make it into graduate school, and this is starting with a sample of students who are interested, motivated and generally have excelled in physics and mathematics before entering university.

While I'm sure you can find a rare counter-example if you look hard enough, the bottom line is that you can't get into graduate school for physics unless you've completed an undergraduate degree in physics, or something very close to that (i.e. engineering physics, physical chemistry, etc.) Self study won't qualify you for admission, no matter how well you do on the PGRE exam.

Your best option might be to find a school that offers a computer science and physics double major program. This might take you five years instead of four, but at the end you'd actually be qualified for graduate school in physics. And you'll have the computer science skill set that you want to have for future employment prospects.

 

[DaveE]

I don't have a good enough portfolio (no Olympiads or medals in any competitions and my grades haven't been too great either) to be accepted into any ivy league college and my parents are not ready to send me abroad to study in a tier 2 college.

There are LOTS of good physics undergrad programs that aren't an ivy league college. Maybe you could teach your parents that?

 

[CrysPhys]

In short I don't really have a choice.

I don't have a good enough portfolio (no Olympiads or medals in any competitions and my grades haven't been too great either) to be accepted into any ivy league college and my parents are not ready to send me abroad to study in a tier 2 college. As most Asian parents they want me to become an engineer so that I will have job security(and also because my dad is a computer engineer and believes that a degree in physics is quite useless), but after a lot of discussing I have convinced them to send me abroad to pursue physics after my undergrad(i.e, ofc if I get accepted into a graduate program somewhere) hence my question.

also I can't pursue Physics here in India because I was unable to qualify KVPY(the national level exam to get into IISC's and ISER's) so my only option left is to take computer science.

<<Emphasis added>>

Could you please clarify this? Your parents are willing to pay for a physics grad program (MS? PhD?) in the US, if you get accepted? Is this also conditioned on you getting accepted by what they consider to be a sufficiently prestigious university? Or will they accept lower ranked schools for grad programs? Assuming (merely for the sake of argument) that you were able to pull this off, what would then be your career goal?

 

[Hamiltonian]

Could you please clarify this? Your parents are willing to pay for a physics grad program (MS? PhD?) in the US, if you get accepted? Is this also conditioned on you getting accepted by what they consider to be a sufficiently prestigious university? Or will they accept lower ranked schools for grad programs? Assuming (merely for the sake of argument) that you were able to pull this off, what would then be your career goal?

Yes they are willing to pay for my further studies in physics if I get into a prestigious university provided I do my undergrad in comp-sci first which I don't really mind doing.
Assuming everything goes according to plan I would like to do research(the theoretical kind) and teach along with that.

 

[CrysPhys]

Yes they are willing to pay for my further studies in physics if I get into a prestigious university provided I do my undergrad in comp-sci first which I don't really mind doing.
Assuming everything goes according to plan I would like to do research(the theoretical kind) and teach along with that.

You need to understand how grad physics programs in the US work.

* First, you can apply for a PhD program with a BS (typically in physics; or closely related major with strong physics background). An MS is not required (in many other countries, it is).

* If you are accepted into a PhD program by a US university that really wants you, you will typically get a full tuition waiver plus a stipend (fellowship, research assistantship, or teaching assistantship) enough for you to live on if you're single. You won't be dependent on your parents (well, you need airfare to get over here); so you won't be restricted by what they consider to be a prestigious university (assuming you don't impose the same restriction yourself; is that the case?). Funding is far less likely if you are applying for an MS program.

----

However, you will be competing with candidates who have completed bachelor's programs in physics (and the best candidates will have high GPAs, high PGREs, undergrad physics research experience, and strong letters of recommendation from physics professors). So exactly why would an admissions committee (at a worthwhile university) choose you? You need to come up with a good answer before proceeding with your current plans.

Take a look at this recent thread: https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...s-after-10-years-in-software-low-gpa.1007484/ . You don't want to be in the same scenario 10+ yrs from now.

 

[bob012345]

Say I continue self learning physics approximately how many years could it take me to understand these ideas(I realize this is a bit vague as it depends on way to many factors but I guess I am just wondering if it takes a physics major about 6-7years+? how long would it take me? or is it simply impossible?)

My opinion, and it's just an opinion, is that it would be virtually impossible to gain the level of understanding you seem to want purely by self study. I don't think the issue is mainly time as much as interaction with teachers and others in the field as you learn. I believe one needs to take courses and interact with professors and other students along the way to gain the level of deep understanding you want.

 

[symbolipoint]

My opinion, and it's just an opinion, is that it would be virtually impossible to gain the level of understanding you seem to want purely by self study. I don't think the issue is mainly time as much as interaction with teachers and others in the field as you learn. I believe one needs to take courses and interact with professors and other students along the way to gain the level of deep understanding you want.

We're still missing something here.

What if someone wants to understand breadbaking while in some school, and is in some program but his focus or 'major' is not really concentrated on breadbaking. He wants to know about learning all he can and gain a deep understanding through finding and reading books on breadbaking. Very little, or mostly poor progress toward that goal, unless he spends time in the kitchen, working with and handling the materials and equipment, and actually bakes some breads.

 

[Hamiltonian]

Take a look at this recent thread: https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...s-after-10-years-in-software-low-gpa.1007484/ . You don't want to be in the same scenario 10+ yrs from now.

I definitely do not want to end up like that.

I have spoken with my parents, they are ok with me doing a minor(or a double major I think that's fairly uncommon at Indian uni's but those details can mostly be worked out once I get accepted) in physics/engineering-physics along with comp-sci, I still haven't written JEE(the national level exam for entrance into engineering colleges in India) and will be giving it in about 6months, hopefully I can make it into an IIT which have a really good physics department.

I now realize my goal as stated above was very ambitious and bordering on the unrealistic.
so as of now I shall try my best to get a good rank in JEE so that I can take both comp and physics at a college like IIT and hopefully if that happens make it into a PhD program in the States in 4years.

I am glad a lot of my misconceptions have been cleared, thank you for your time everyone.

 

[bob012345]

I definitely do not want to end up like that.

I have spoken with my parents, they are ok with me doing a minor(or a double major I think that's fairly uncommon at Indian uni's but those details can mostly be worked out once I get accepted) in physics/engineering-physics along with comp-sci, I still haven't written JEE(the national level exam for entrance into engineering colleges in India) and will be giving it in about 6months, hopefully I can make it into an IIT which have a really good physics department.

I now realize my goal as stated above was very ambitious and bordering on the unrealistic.
so as of now I shall try my best to get a good rank in JEE so that I can take both comp and physics at a college like IIT and hopefully if that happens make it into a PhD program in the States in 4years.

I am glad a lot of my misconceptions have been cleared, thank you for your time everyone.

Note that the point is not to shy away from learning all you want about string theory or whatever. If you are passionate about the subject by all means learn what you can regardless of what you end up doing for a living. You could still learn more than most people on the planet without even being a professional. I was just suggesting to have reasonable expectations regarding self study.