How long will a hard Nylon cane last?

[yungman]

TL;DR Summary

Is there any expiration date on integrity of Nylon?

This is not a homework question.

I don't know whether this is even the right place to ask, it is very vague. Lately, I have a nice pair of shoes that was stored in the bedroom without extreme temperature change or humidity change. I have it for like 20 years. A month ago, I took it out and used it, the hard rubber sole turned into mush! It literally disintegrated into thick gritty paste. That make me rethink about the integrity of other non metal material like plastic and others. Those are quite expensive shoe, not any cheap shoes.

I am using this particular cane, I don't have any more information other than the description that the material is fiber filled Nylon.
https://www.unitedcutlery.com/ProductDetail.aspx?itemno=UC3129&cat=DF

I wonder anyone know how long this material will last before it starts to degrade like getting soft, getting brittle, getting weaker etc.

How often I have to buy new ones and discard the old one. It is important for me to have the cane in it's best condition.

I know this is a stupid question and I don't have close to enough info to analyze this, just wonder anyone have an educated guess. I send the question to the company, but I seriously doubt they know the answer as they have those manufactured in China.

thanks

 

[Mark44]

am using this particular cane, I don't have any more information other than the description that the material is fiber filled Nylon.
https://www.unitedcutlery.com/ProductDetail.aspx?itemno=UC3129&cat=DF
I wonder anyone know how long this material will last before it starts to degrade like getting soft, getting brittle, getting weaker etc.

107.35 years.

How often I have to buy new ones and discard the old one.

Every 107.35 years.

Seriously, thought, comparing the lifespan of the soles of a 20-year-old pair of shoes with that of a nylon cane is really comparing apples and oranges.

 

[yungman]

107.35 years.

Every 107.35 years.

Seriously, thought, comparing the lifespan of the soles of a 20-year-old pair of shoes with that of a nylon cane is really comparing apples and oranges.

Thanks

So those harder Nylon stuffs will last a lot longer? Why the shoe just disintegrate like that?

 

[Mark44]

So those harder Nylon stuffs will last a lot longer?

Probably.

Why the shoe just disintegrate like that?

The rubber breaks down over time. I had a pair of shoes with molded-on soles, and they broke down the same as your shoes did.

 

[Baluncore]

So those harder Nylon stuffs will last a lot longer? Why the shoe just disintegrate like that?

Softer flexible rubbers are very sensitive to ozone and can collapse quickly.

Some rubbers last longer if they can be kept wet. A cupboard is a dry place. Cupboards can also be warm, which accelerates the chemical reactions.

 

[Tom.G]

There is a chart available of the chemical resistance of various materials, including Nylon, at:
https://dokumen.tips/documents/chem...ss-rubber-mossrubbercompdfschemrespdfpdf.html

It is an 18 page, downloadable, PDF file.

The chart was originally from Moss Rubber, which has since been bought out by Motion Industries.

Generally speaking, direct Sunlight (UV?) and some acids will attack Nylon. If I recall correctly, there are additives available for Nylon that will mostly protect it from Sunlight. Damaged Nylon often turns Yellow or Yellowish Brown.

Unless you are in industry or a chemist, you will likely never get near the troublesome acids.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Baluncore]

I am using this particular cane, I don't have any more information other than the description that the material is fiber filled Nylon.

That cane will last until you use it for the offensive action it was designed. Then it will be locked up in evidence, and you will begin to realize that it would have been safer not to escalate the conflict by carrying a weapon.
If you raised that cane against another, they could justifiably shoot you dead in self defence. A chemical mace would be safer for you and for your family.

 

[Mark44]

That cane will last until you use it for the offensive action it was designed. Then it will be locked up in evidence

I doubt very much that @yungman intends to use this as an offensive weapon. As far as I can tell, the can was designed, in part, as a defensive weapon.

In any case, the question posed was about how long the cane might last, Potential uses of the cane are off-topic, in my view.

 

[yungman]

Thanks guys for all the information. No, I am close to 69 already, offensive what? I pick up stick fight because of all the older Chinese being attacked. All I care is if I ever unlucky enough to have to use it, it will stay in one piece.

BTW, I do have pepper spray in my pocket also!

 

[yungman]

Hi,

I read water can prevent Nylon from getting brittle and degrade. Is it useful to wipe the cane down with wet paper towel once a while and let it hang dry? Or do I have to soak it?

thanks

 

[Baluncore]

All plastics absorb some water, that then acts as a plasticizer.

For the longest life, you should store Nylon underwater, or in a cool dark place with 100% RH.
https://www.amcopolymers.com/resources/blog/nylon-and-moisture-absorption
https://weeklypellet.com/2016/07/22/understanding-nylon-and-moisture/

 

[yungman]

Thanks

Store under water or store in high humidity is not practical for me. Would wipe with wet towel help?

Also, if I have an older stick, will keeping it wet reverse the aging? From what I read, it should be possible to certain degree.

 

[Baluncore]

Would wipe with wet towel help?

Yes, but you will forget. How often do you use it ?
Maybe soak it in water after use, then store it in a cool place.

There are two competing processes.
1. At low temperatures, water, as a plasticizer, lengthens life.
2. At high temperatures, hydrolysis reduces the MW and accelerates ageing of the material, for example, when used for automobile radiator components.

https://etp.teknorapex.com/blog/moisture-absorption-in-nylon

 

[yungman]

Thanks

I was thinking about this, soaking is not convenient, I don't have a deep container. This is what I come up. I just wrap the cane with paper towel and wet the paper towel. It will stay wet for like 6hrs. I just let it sit like this for a few hours.

Question is how often I need to do it? Once a month? I don't need it to literally last forever. I am 70, so if it stays strong for 20yrs, that's good enough.

 

[Baluncore]

You will get more than 20 years from a Nylon stick if you just keep it cool and out of the sun.

The baculum (not the tusk) of the narwhal, was used as a stick in the time before Nylon, but now they are getting harder to find.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baculum

 

[hmmm27]

The soles were probaly polyurethane, which is nice and flexible for awhile but not 20 years. Some kind soul once gave me an old pair of otherwise decent workboots ... which lasted about 20 feet.

Meanwhile, narwhals don't have bacula : you're thinking walrus.

 

[Baluncore]

Meanwhile, narwhals don't have bacula : you're thinking walrus.

If that is true, it would explain why they are now hard to find.

 

[Dullard]

If I wasn't already afraid of walruses, I am now.

 

[yungman]

You will get more than 20 years from a Nylon stick if you just keep it cool and out of the sun.

The baculum (not the tusk) of the narwhal, was used as a stick in the time before Nylon, but now they are getting harder to find.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baculum

I can't find info. How much it'll help if I just wrap with wet cloth for say 10hrs once every month? Will it last say 10yrs more?

I am not trying make it last forever or just leave it alone. Just want to find the minimal effort to make it last a few more years.

Would wrapping with wet cloth for 12hrs a month make a difference?

Thanks

 

[Baluncore]

Would wrapping with wet cloth for 12hrs a month make a difference?

Yes, but compared to what?

You want it to be supple, so it needs to have a stabilised water content before use. But what is the optimum water content? Is it that critical?

You want the hydrolysis to be slow, so you must keep it cool. Each 10 °C cooler will double the lifetime, before it reaches a specified MW reduction, by hydrolysis.

How careful was the manufacturer when they formulated the raw material, and controlled the heat during moulding?

Does a replaceable plastic product deserve such care, effort and attention?
Does it have a serial number and an expensive brand name?
If you lose it following a senior moment, will you miss it?
Can it be returned to you if it was found by a stranger?

If you can follow a routine that does not injure it, then that should be sufficient. If you rinse it after use, or once per week, and store it in a cool place, out of the sun, then it will outlast you.

 

[yungman]

I read into more of this. I cannot exactly find the answer like if I soak in water for say a few hours, how long it takes for the water absorbed to be evaporate away. That is how often I have to repeat soaking in water.

From articles, seems like the speed of absorption is the same as evaporation. that is if it takes 3hrs to soap through the cane, it only takes about 3hrs before all the moisture to evaporate out and back to before I soaked it.

If that is the case, it's almost USELESS to soak unless I soak it everyday WHICH is NOT practical at all. Best I can do is wet cloth it once a month, then wipe down with damp paper towel once a while in between. I don't think that helps, just waste of time.

I don't go outdoor often, direct sun light is not an issue at all. I guess I just change to a new set of canes every few years is more practical. I don't want to take the chance of 10+yrs.

Unless anyone can tell me that it will help even I soak in wet cloth once a month, it's not worth my time.

Thanks

 

[Baluncore]

From articles, seems like the speed of absorption is the same as evaporation. that is if it takes 3hrs to soap through the cane, it only takes about 3hrs before all the moisture to evaporate out and back to before I soaked it.

You are assuming that both the store and soak processes are carried out at the same temperature, but each +10 °C doubles the rate of diffusion.

You should not store it below freezing because the air will then be too dry. If you store Nylon at 10 °C, (in the pantry or basement), but soak it at 100 °C, then the store/soak time ratio moves from 1:1 out to 2^(90/10)=512. Then you only need to boil it for a total of about one tenth of a week per year ≈ 17 hours/year.

 

[yungman]

You are assuming that both the store and soak processes are carried out at the same temperature, but each +10 °C doubles the rate of diffusion.

You should not store it below freezing because the air will then be too dry. If you store Nylon at 10 °C, (in the pantry or basement), but soak it at 100 °C, then the store/soak time ratio moves from 1:1 out to 2^(90/10)=512. Then you only need to boil it for a total of about one tenth of a week per year ≈ 17 hours/year.

I cannot do it at 10deg C or 100deg C. All I can do is either keep it soak by covering with paper towel at room temp or nothing. If it is useless, I won't waste my time.

 

[yungman]

You are assuming that both the store and soak processes are carried out at the same temperature, but each +10 °C doubles the rate of diffusion.

You should not store it below freezing because the air will then be too dry. If you store Nylon at 10 °C, (in the pantry or basement), but soak it at 100 °C, then the store/soak time ratio moves from 1:1 out to 2^(90/10)=512. Then you only need to boil it for a total of about one tenth of a week per year ≈ 17 hours/year.

Can you give me the link on how temperature of soaking affect the soak/dry ratio?

 

[Baluncore]

You want the hydrolysis to be slow, so you must keep it cool. Each 10 °C cooler will double the lifetime, before it reaches a specified MW reduction, by hydrolysis.

I think it is a rule of thumb in chemistry, that rates change by a factor of two for each 10 °C change. This works for chemical reaction rates and for physical rates like diffusion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation
It works in biology and in accelerated testing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerated_aging
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence#Contrived_durability

 

[yungman]

Is there any information on the Nylon water absorption rate. That's is how deep the water penetrate into the Nylon with time?

I found a way to almost like submerge the stick in water. What I do is wrap the stick with bath towel, then lie flat in bath tub and at least fill the tub half way up the stick, just let the wet towel provide water on the top part. Obviously, the plunger of the tub slowly leaking water out and empty the tub, but The towel is so wet that it should literally cover the whole stick with water.

The ultimate question is how long it takes for water to penetrate to the middle inside the stick. The diameter of the stick is 1", so I only need to penetrate 1/2"(1/2" on both side will equal to 1" total).

Question is how long it takes to dip the stick in water to get the complete penetrate into the stick. Then I know I don't have to dip it any longer than that. Say the water is 25deg C.

Thanks

 

[Baluncore]

Question is how long it takes to dip the stick in water to get the complete penetrate into the stick. Then I know I don't have to dip it any longer than that.

It will depend on many things. I would expect the water content to be dependent on the relative wet and dry alternating exposure times. Diffusion is something that takes place at different speeds at different depths, so exposure history gives it stratified water content.

All plastics swell when soaked in water for a sufficient time, some more than others. If you could measure the diameter with a micrometer, you would notice the size change due to the volume of water diffused into the Nylon. The length also changes.

Weight is probably an easier way to identify water content with a single measurement. You would need to experiment. Water weighs 1 kg per litre, 1 g per ml.

Weigh the stick dry, soak it for a while, then weigh it again. Watch the weight fall as it gradually dries out over the following days. Record the exposure and plot the curve of stick weight against time. Identify the time it takes to lose or gain half the weight of the remaining diffused water.