How Much Small Talk Is Enough?

[Dembadon]

How much "small talk" is enough?

I'm occasionally involved in awkward conversations because I don't like small talk. Most of the things I like to talk about are not appropriate conversation topics for first or second encounters with new people. This leads me to not engage at all, but then I'm accused of being aloof. I've been trying to smile more so as to become more approachable, but I've a hard time forming a believable smile when nothing has happened to make me want to smile. It feels forced and unauthentic.

How many times must I hang out with someone before I can start talking about meaningful things?

 

[Astronuc]

I'm occasionally involved in awkward conversations because I don't like small talk. Most of the things I like to talk about are not appropriate conversation topics for first or second encounters with new people. This leads me to not engage at all, but then I'm accused of being aloof. I've been trying to smile more so as to become more approachable, but I've a hard time forming a believable smile when nothing has happened to make me want to smile. It feels forced and unauthentic.

How many times must I hang out with someone before I can start talking about meaningful things?

What does one consider small talk, and what does one consider substantive or meaningful?

I had a rather engaging conversation with my next seat neighbor during a 3.5 hr flight last Friday. I've had many substantive conversations with strangers during short and long flights, and on one or two occasions, I exchanged business cards.

 

[Andre]

Oh dear, a very familiar thing. Most often the small talk is about the most favorite sport, tv series, boring news, fiction books. Why is there no small talk about history archeology, math.

I noticed that the easiest small talk is about things like mammoths. People seem/act/are always interested. Obviously the flow of information is always one way.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Does this help?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uozGujfdS0

 

[Evo]

I'm occasionally involved in awkward conversations because I don't like small talk. Most of the things I like to talk about are not appropriate conversation topics for first or second encounters with new people. This leads me to not engage at all, but then I'm accused of being aloof. I've been trying to smile more so as to become more approachable, but I've a hard time forming a believable smile when nothing has happened to make me want to smile. It feels forced and unauthentic.

How many times must I hang out with someone before I can start talking about meaningful things?

Are these social, like in a bar or at school or work? Subjects to discuss with people from school or work should be easy, so perhaps you are referring to a social setting with people you may have nothing in common with. I find that current events are always good subjects for meaningless small talk with strangers. They should be at least somewhat commonly known to some extent, and as long as it not politics or religion, it should be safe.

As for avoiding having people try to talk to me where I am trapped, like on a plane, I find reading a book, doing paperwork, or sticking earphones in, even if it's not turned on, are good ways to avoid unwanted conversations.

 

[arildno]

A safe bet is that people, as a rule, love to talk about themselves, and feel knowledgeable, relative to the other.
thus, if you really don't have any topic YOU want to talk about (or those you have seem inappropriate), then try to find out what the other one likes, giving ample compliments and interested smiles to get his or her life history gushing out.
You ought to wait with the puking session until you are alone in your own apartment.

 

[Dembadon]

What does one consider small talk...

As I understand it, "small talk" is making comments about the obvious. For example, "Nice sunny day, isn't it?" Or, "This is a nice house, isn't it?"

Wikipedia defines its typical purpose here:

...In particular, it helps new acquaintances to explore and categorize each other's social position.[6] Small talk is closely related to the need for people to maintain positive face — to feel approved-of by those who are listening to them...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_talk#Purpose
In a casual setting, I don't desire the approval of someone I'm meeting for the first time, nor do I need them to agree with me. If small talk is a method for finding common ground about general topics, then that is probably why I have a hard time with it. I'd rather discuss a specific topic and get the other person's perspectives on it, whether I agree with them or not. This is not usually possible or appropriate for short conversations with strangers.

... and what does one consider substantive or meaningful?

I don't watch TV anymore or listen to "popular" music, so I have little to offer when someone wants to discuss the latest movie or the status of a celebrity relationship. I don't consider those things to be meaningful.

However, I would be interested in analyzing society's desire to watch such shows. Or, regarding a popular music video: what it communicates about our culture.

It is my experience that most people aren't comfortable having conversations like that with someone they just met 30 seconds ago.

I had a rather engaging conversation with my next seat neighbor during a 3.5 hr flight last Friday. I've had many substantive conversations with strangers during short and long flights, and on one or two occasions, I exchanged business cards.

I believe the long flight allowed the conversation to develop into something substantiative. When one is at a social gathering with lots of people, there often isn't time to delve deep into topics because a given encounter usually will only last a few minutes before the next "phase" of the evening begins.

 

[Andre]

...
However, I would be interested in analyzing society's desire to watch such shows. Or, regarding a popular musics video: what does it communicate about our culture?
...

I guess we could small talk like that during a long plane ride

 

[Ryan_m_b]

As I understand it, "small talk" is making comments about the obvious. For example, "Nice sunny day, isn't it?" Or, "This is a nice house, isn't it?"

Unless you're English or in the grips of a freak phenomenon meeting someone and immediately talking about the weather is a non-starter. If this is the definition of small talk (not one I would use but w/e) then I don't see a need for it at all. When you meet someone the most common course of conversation is to ask them what they do, tell them what you do, ask them how they know whoever it is who introduced you and conversation will generally flow from some point of mutual interest that these initial exchanges will offer up.

I don't watch TV or listen to "popular" music, so I have little to offer when someone wants to discuss the latest movie or the status of a celebrity relationship. I don't consider those things to be meaningful.

However, I would be interested in analyzing society's desire to watch such shows. Or, regarding a popular music video: what it communicates about our culture.

It is my experience that most people aren't comfortable having conversations like that with someone they just met 30 seconds ago.

Popular things generally get talked about more because by definition the chances of a random set of people liking them are high. Really it depends on where you are and who you're with for what conversations may come up. I find it hard to talk about sport because I'm not interested (fyi considering something to be meaningful is a bit judgemental over something that really needs little judgement, don't you mean it's not meaningful for you?) but can generally join in with most conversations. I've had many experiences where more in depth/academic conversations with strangers have sprung from simple conversations about popular culture.

When one is at a social gathering with lots of people, there often isn't time to delve deep into topics because a given encounter usually will only last a few minutes before the next "phase" of the evening begins.

It really depends on where you are and who is there but one of the things I tend to look forward to and like most about parties and the like where I don't know many people is talking about a huge range of topics both "in depth" and not.

 

[Travis_King]

Why is there no small talk about history archeology, math.

Because that isn't small talk...

For instance:

[small talk]
"Hi there, I'm Joe"
"Hi Joe, I'm Mike. What do you do for fun, Joe?"
"Well I'm an avid recreational SCUBA diver"
"Oh that's terrific, I SCUBA dive as well, in fact..."
[/small talk]

And from there a conversation is born.

 

[Andre]

I had an excellent lesson in small talk at a neigbors birthday party, yesterday. If I'm permitted to elaborate. To the left the talk was about sports, soccer, no idea, I'm terrible at that. To the right it was about holidays. I know something about that, when you visit your family in France, you always end up with tools in your hand, helping with the work. Good for some small talk.

Interestingly enough some Barby type girl, mid twenties, probably a finalist in the Miss Holland contest, moved closer and closer and started a small talk about photography with the dad of the neighbor who sat next to me.

Since the holiday subject was exhausted, I was happy to mingle. Who can resist not talking about ones primary hobby. Macro, landscape, panorama's, action photos, etc. Tricks and techniques.

So soon enough she told she would be getting married next year, but the profesional photographers were so expensive. Guess what I suggested to her, having just finished a well received photo coverage of a niece's wedding?

I think we have a deal, but I also think that the neighbor, who had seen the pix of that marriage, had set up the whole thing for her friend

Just a little smalltalk.

 

[Dembadon]

... (fyi considering something to be meaningful is a bit judgemental over something that really needs little judgement, don't you mean it's not meaningful for you?) ...

Correct. My use of "meaningful" was not ideal. I meant it in the sense that "small talk" is not good way of getting to know the other person; I should have probably said "useful."

I believe the awkwardness is created when I try to develop a "small talk" idea into something more useful for getting to know the other person and they don't follow, but respond with another incredibly broad statement.

 

[Dembadon]

Are these social, like in a bar or at school or work? Subjects to discuss with people from school or work should be easy, so perhaps you are referring to a social setting with people you may have nothing in common with. I find that current events are always good subjects for meaningless small talk with strangers. They should be at least somewhat commonly known to some extent, and as long as it not politics or religion, it should be safe.

I'm referring mostly to family gatherings or other similar social events. Also, I would consider current events meaningful, since they usually have large implications on society and also serve to help me get to know what makes the other person unique.

Or I might just have a hard time knowing what small talk is and what it isn't.

As for avoiding having people try to talk to me where I am trapped, like on a plane, I find reading a book, doing paperwork, or sticking earphones in, even if it's not turned on, are good ways to avoid unwanted conversations.

I don't have a problem doing that in those situations, but when I'm at a family function with in-laws and their friends, I've been told it is rude to refrain from "mingling". But, I would rather have a "deeper" conversation with one person than shallow conversations with a bunch of different people.

 

[Drakkith]

I have a speech issue on top of the fact that I don't even care about most of the common things people like to talk about. And then top it with the belief, perhaps mistaken, that most people around me know practically nothing about anything they are talking about and you could say I have some serious problems getting to know people. Small talk is...challenging.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Correct. My use of "meaningful" was not ideal. I meant it in the sense that "small talk" is not good way of getting to know the other person; I should have probably said "useful."

I believe the awkwardness is created when I try to develop a "small talk" idea into something more useful for getting to know the other person and they don't follow, but respond with another incredibly broad statement.

What do you do on Sundays? It occurs to me you might benefit from PF Chat. It would be easier to give advice on conversations, small talk etc in a more natural conversation setting.

 

[Astronuc]

What do you do on Sundays? It occurs to me you might benefit from PF Chat. It would be easier to give advice on conversations, small talk etc in a more natural conversation setting.

Brilliant! and one can chat about math.


My colleague and I engage in small-talk or light banter with folks at the local diner. It could be about sports, or weather, or local events/business, depending on what's significant at the moment. Sometimes we'll talk about what my colleague and I do at work, but in general terms. Our work is generally beyond the experience of non-technical/non-scientific folk.

 

[AlephZero]

Small talk is easy. You just ask the other person "tell me everything about your life history to date", then stop listening for the next few hours and just nod when the other person pauses for breath.

The other person will probably go away thinking you were the most interesting person they have ever talked to in their life.

The only trick is to find the right words to ask the question...

(Yes, that's a cynical answer, but there's a lot of truth in it).

 

[I like Serena]

I usually try to brush lightly on a series of topics that interest me.
People don't like it if you just select the topic and keep going on about it, regardless of whether it interests them or not.
If they do the same, you can try to find a couple of topics that feel sort of right.

Then you can slowly and carefully get into a bit more depth, always careful not to force the conversation.
It should be always easy for both parties to move away from a specific topic, or indeed break off the conversation.
Then the space is created to come back to an interesting topic and delve more deeply into it.

 

[Astronuc]

As I understand it, "small talk" is making comments about the obvious. For example, "Nice sunny day, isn't it?" Or, "This is a nice house, isn't it?"

Wikipedia defines its typical purpose here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_talk#Purpose
In a casual setting, I don't desire the approval of someone I'm meeting for the first time, nor do I need them to agree with me. If small talk is a method for finding common ground about general topics, then that is probably why I have a hard time with it. I'd rather discuss a specific topic and get the other person's perspectives on it, whether I agree with them or not. This is not usually possible or appropriate for short conversations with strangers.


I don't watch TV anymore or listen to "popular" music, so I have little to offer when someone wants to discuss the latest movie or the status of a celebrity relationship. I don't consider those things to be meaningful.

However, I would be interested in analyzing society's desire to watch such shows. Or, regarding a popular music video: what it communicates about our culture.

It is my experience that most people aren't comfortable having conversations like that with someone they just met 30 seconds ago.

I believe the long flight allowed the conversation to develop into something substantiative. When one is at a social gathering with lots of people, there often isn't time to delve deep into topics because a given encounter usually will only last a few minutes before the next "phase" of the evening begins.

I also don't watch much TV or listen to pop music, and I generally ignore popular culture. But I find there are plenty of interesting subjects in which to engage someone.

During the recent flight, the woman next to me initiated the conversation. She started with asking me if I was traveling to a meeting or on my way home. It evolved into a myriad of subjects including travel, the airline industry, the recent death of her mother, some of her religious beliefs, the state of the US and the world, the current national election, . . . . The woman was a flight attendant who works on the routes from the US to China or India. It was quite an enjoyable and pleasant interaction. If we were both single, I'm sure I would have gotten a date from that encounter.

With family members, I have different interactions, since there is already some familiarity with my work from previous interactions, and I'm familiar with what various family members are up to.

 

[lisab]

I have similar issues as others here - I don't watch TV or follow celebrities, and that seems to be the breadth of what constitutes small talk for most of the people I meet. For example, *all* of the hair stylists I've seen in the last couple years want to gossip about celebrities. Sigh. And I have to pay them.

 

[I like Serena]

It's disheartening when brushing a lot of different topics and discovering there really is no common interest, so the only way out is the weather.

Luckily, since I go to the barber in a small village, we usually have at least a couple of acquaintances in common. ;)

 

[Dembadon]

What do you do on Sundays? It occurs to me you might benefit from PF Chat. It would be easier to give advice on conversations, small talk etc in a more natural conversation setting.

Sunday is really the only day my wife and I get to be together with no other distractions. I really look forward to this day because every other day is so hectic so our time together is often feels rushed. I hate it.

I have been in PF chat a few times and really enjoyed it, but given our schedules at this point in our lives, I like having Sundays for just us. I really appreciate your willingness to help, though.

My wife has actually helped to improve my social skills a great deal; she is very patient and doesn't make me feel like an idiot when I screw something up. However, it is something that comes quite naturally for her, so sometimes she struggles with a precise explanation of what/how she does things. Analogously, there are some things that come naturally to me such that I don't think about how I do them, I just do them. So when I go to talk about it with someone else, it's difficult for me to explain the process since it is virtually automatic in my brain.

 

[daveyrocket]

One thing that has helped me with small talk is when I had a realization. Small talk isn't about the content of what's being discussed, it's really a way that you let someone know that you feel like they are worth talking to. If you can relieve the pressure of what's actually said by looking at small talk as just being about saying to someone "hey you're cool and I want to talk to you" then that makes it easier. At least it did for me.

 

[Drakkith]

If you can relieve the pressure of what's actually said by looking at small talk as just being about saying to someone "hey you're cool and I want to talk to you" then that makes it easier. At least it did for me.

I don't know about the OP, but my problem is that I literally have nothing to talk about.

 

[Astronuc]

I don't know about the OP, but my problem is that I literally have nothing to talk about.

Some interesting current and relevant topic in particle physics, nuclear physics, astrophysics or cosmology.

Carl Sagan always had something to say.

 

[Drakkith]

Some interesting current and relevant topic in particle physics, nuclear physics, astrophysics or cosmology.

Most people don't understand any of that, and I am practically incapable of explaining it to them. A combination of several different factors prevent me from doing so.

Carl Sagan always had something to say.

I wish I had the skills that Carl Sagan had.

 

[chiro]

I don't know about the OP, but my problem is that I literally have nothing to talk about.

It's a lot easier to let the other party talk and then take interest in what they are talking about.

I actually think that AlephZero's response was very apt for this thread: it is amazing how easy it is for people to open up about themselves and the willingness to do so for extended periods of time if you provide the right catalyst.

Showing a genuine interest in people is always going to get things going in some point or another.

Another thing to note is to find people's frustrations: whether or not you want to become bartender or personal psychotherapist is one issue but one thing is for sure: people love to vent stuff and get it off their chest and it makes most people a lot better to do so.

For some people it's dropping a tonne of bricks (or maybe just a few) that they have carried around and can now finally dump them somewhere.

 

[turbo]

If you don't like small-talk, avoid my aunt like the plague. I dread calling my uncle (HVAC guy) for fear that she will pick up the phone and try to trap me for at least 1/2 hour.

 

[Drakkith]

If you don't like small-talk, avoid my aunt like the plague. I dread calling my uncle (HVAC guy) for fear that she will pick up the phone and try to trap me for at least 1/2 hour.

That's not small talk, that's LOOOONG-talk.

 

[Dembadon]

I don't know about the OP, but my problem is that I literally have nothing to talk about.

I can usually find stuff to talk about, but occasionally I'll find someone with whom I can't relate at all. I'll feel like one of us is from another planet or something. I believe my problem is that I either don't know when to move from small talk to something deeper, or I'm not good at creating such a transition.

For example, the last family function took place at my father-in-law's place. It's a massive house built in the '30s, and he's done a lot of work to keep it in good shape. Shortly after a the party started, one of the guests leaned my way and made a comment about how nice the house was, and I understood this to mean she was interested in a conversation, so I asked what she liked about it. She said, "It's just nice and bright." So, taking notice of the type of paint used in the house, I commented that the oil-base, hi-gloss enamel did have a pleasant "brightening" effect, but that it's a lot of work to apply and can be a fire hazard due to its oil content. She gave a slight nod and I was about to ask for her name and how she knew my father-in-law, but she mentioned needing to use the restroom, so I didn't want to come off as rude by perpetuating the conversation.

I'm guessing my reply was not what she expected or hoped for, thus making her want to find a way to end the conversation and move on, and the restroom comment was an excuse to do so. I probably should have just responded with something like, "Yes, the paint helps brighten the room." Would this have been a better response?

 

[Drakkith]

I think it's only a better response if you actually wanted to talk with her Dembadon. I probably wouldn't have noticed the paint at all and would have said something along the lines of "Huh, I guess it is bright in here".

 

[Astronuc]

. . . . She said, "It's just nice and bright." So, taking notice of the type of paint used in the house, I commented that the oil-base, hi-gloss enamel did have a pleasant "brightening" effect, but that it's a lot of work to apply and can be a fire hazard due to its oil content. She gave a slight nod . . .

I can relate to and appreciate your comment.

I'm guessing my reply was not what she expected or hoped for, thus making her want to find a way to end the conversation and move on, and the restroom comment was an excuse to do so. I probably should have just responded with something like, "Yes, the paint helps brighten the room." Would this have been a better response?

For most people, that would be a preferred answer.

 

[Zarqon]

For example, the last family function took place at my father-in-law's place. It's a massive house built in the '30s, and he's done a lot of work to keep it in good shape. Shortly after a the party started, one of the guests leaned my way and made a comment about how nice the house was, and I understood this to mean she was interested in a conversation, so I asked what she liked about it. She said, "It's just nice and bright." So, taking notice of the type of paint used in the house, I commented that the oil-base, hi-gloss enamel did have a pleasant "brightening" effect, but that it's a lot of work to apply and can be a fire hazard due to its oil content. She gave a slight nod and I was about to ask for her name and how she knew my father-in-law, but she mentioned needing to use the restroom, so I didn't want to come off as rude by perpetuating the conversation.

In this example, I would guess your biggest mistake was to mention the fire hazard, especially if you did it with a straight face. If you could find a more lighthearted/humorous way to say it, it might have worked, but such a pessimistic statement, usually comes off rather poorly to most people if said seriously.

I usually have the exact same desires as you when it comes to wanting more substance when I talk to someone. One thing I have found that helps making transitions easier, is to "probe" how eager the other person is to move onto more substance, before you commit to it fully.

In your example here, you can indeed make the specific comment about oil-paints and how that enables the brightness in the house, and even comment on how much work it is. If she responds well to your specific details you can move on from there, however, if you see that she does not respond well to this, then just take a step back, and make a more lighthearted comment, for example "I'm too lazy to ever keep oilpainting like this up *smile at this point*, but I can appreciate when others do".

 

[alan2]

Don't worry about it. When you get old enough you won't want to talk to most people anyway, at least not in a social setting. So you have a head start.

 

[Cloudless]

I used to be in the same situation. I hated small talk; everything I said seemed force and superficial, and my mouth hurt from fake smiling.

Sometimes I meet someone I can easily carry a conversation with, and that's great. Not everyone connects easily. I used to worry about that but now, when there's someone whom I just can't make small talk with or feel uncomfortable, I just make some noncommittal nods and they'd let me be.