How to get accepted at MIT/Physics? Help

[BONHEAD]

Guys I need your help on this one...
I'm an international student/ I don’t live in the US / and I want to study at MIT the department of physics. Yes it's not easy, but that’s not the issue … I'm 25 years old, I have a graduate degree in visual communications, and my high school diploma is only 65% success, so this does not qualify me at all, the good thing is that I've been studying Physics and Mathematics for 2 years and I'm good. Does SAT test in math and physics are enough for me to get accepted at MIT in the year 2012, or should I try something else like getting a high school diploma again and SAT?? Please advise me,

 

[deathnote93]

SAT is used for high school kids to get into college.

You have a graduate degree already; you want to do a PhD? You're not very clear on what you want to do.

 

[BONHEAD]

SAT is used for high school kids to get into college.

You have a graduate degree already; you want to do a PhD? You're not very clear on what you want to do.

well, you have a good point there, but.. The education at my country is different and I was forced to study my own hobby at the faculty of fine arts, I'm the top manager at my department for three years, I'm at the top of my career ladder, I'm creative director now, if I got a PHD I'll be demanding for more money and young managers would take my position and I'll end up jobless :).
But anyway my job does not add anything to this world, my job in advertising adds only lies, plus me as an artist makes me a good candidate for a physicist, with visualizing and constructing theories for things we don't see, like quantum mechanics and black holes.
what do you think now?

 

[Pengwuino]

I'm still also confused, do you have a college degree or not?

And no, being an artist doesn't make you a good candidate for a physicist. In fact, you're probably woefully unprepared for any physics graduate department in the US, let alone MITs.

 

[BONHEAD]

I'm still also confused, do you have a college degree or not?

And no, being an artist doesn't make you a good candidate for a physicist. In fact, you're probably woefully unprepared for any physics graduate department in the US, let alone MITs.

Richard Feynman and Leonardo Da Vinci are great scientists and artists, just as a reminder!
And what's wronge with you people? a stranger asks for an advice, you don't know me to judge me! or you're a psychic to know me well!
Just try to be neutral, If you hate my question you have the choice not to answere.

 

[BONHEAD]

I'm still also confused, do you have a college degree or not?

Oh, and if you're that smart you should't be confused, you can read! right!

 

[Pengwuino]

Richard Feynman and Leonardo Da Vinci are great scientists and artists, just as a reminder!
And what's wronge with you people? a stranger asks for an advice, you don't know me to judge me! or you're a psychic to know me well!
Just try to be neutral, If you hate my question you have the choice not to answere.

Ok you're right. Your artistic background (typically devoid of any proper mathematical training) would make you an excellent candidate at one of the best physics programs in the world where you will successful work alongside people who have spent years of intense study in both the physical sciences and mathematics. Never mind the hundreds of candidates, some whom have actually published in internationally recognized journals, who are competing for those same spots have years of actual physics training under their belt.

Telling you that you are woefully unprepared is not an insult. It's a fact based of what you have said. What quantum texts have you gone through? E&M? What's your mathematical background? Again, do you actually have a college degree?

 

[Pengwuino]

Oh, and if you're that smart you should't be confused, you can read! right!

You say you have a graduate degree, but then ask about SATs? And going back to high school? None of this makes any sense.

 

[BONHEAD]

You say you have a graduate degree, but then ask about SATs? And going back to high school? None of this makes any sense.

I do have a graduate degree.
In my country the education is free, and if you finished high school you will be educated in college free of charge. And you get to have another chance in getting another haighscool diploma to get another degree. Thats what I meant, in my country you can get the chance to apply again to high school a second time and have another chance to get a different degree.
I don't know much about SAT, but I don't think that SAT is a bad idea at all, just to study physics. Again if you have other suggestions please advise!

 

[FroChro]

I don't have much to add to the debate, just wanted to point out that therm "high school" may be interpreted differently in different places in the world. For example direct (word to word) translation to english of one of terms for university in some european countries is "high school". (for BONHEAD: high school is more-less a place where kids are educated)

Anyway I'm still confused from BONHEAD's posts, so I don't know if this is relevant.

 

[BONHEAD]

I'm confused that everyone is confused !

 

[FroChro]

I do have a graduate degree.
And you get to have another chance in getting another haighscool diploma to get another degree. Thats what I meant, in my country you can get the chance to apply again to high school a second time and have another chance to get a different degree.

For example this. So you - 25 years old- can reapply for high school and study there with 14 years old kids?? Don't you mean university (or something similar) by high school? (just tell us were you are from, someone maybe will be familiar with school system there)

Anyway, from what you wrote I think this is the case: you went to elementary school, then to high school and then to college (well, in fact I don't know what does really word college mean in english) and you probably got Bc., B.A. or whatever in something like marketing or like some arts. (i don't think you have master degree becouse of your age and job position) Am I right?

 

[BONHEAD]

Anyway, from what you wrote I think this is the case: you went to elementary school, then to high school and then to college (well, in fact I don't know what does really word college mean in english) and you probably got Bc., B.A. or whatever in something like marketing or like some arts. (i don't think you have master degree becouse of your age and job position) Am I right?

absolutly right, of all above, and what I meant with high school is that you get to do only the last year of school -studying at home then take the test- the 12th grad and then again apply for college - university, and the reason of all that is to get higher grades that can let you get for example to medicine university or any major, rergardless of what you've studied before.

 

[eri]

OK, that's not how it works in the US. In the US, if you want to apply for graduate school in physics, you must first earn a bachelors degree, and it really needs to be in physics. Your degrees will not qualify you to enter a graduate program. You can, however, start over with a bachelors, but many US schools won't admit you for a second bachelors since you already have one from your own country. MIT is unlikely to admit you for that, so you'd be probably looking at large state schools instead. And there you will need the SATs to apply.

 

[Manchot]

Bonhead, the confusion comes from the fact that in the U.S., "high school" always refers to the schooling that 14-18 year olds do. It's not focused on anyone subject, and is only repeated if you fail. People typically take the SAT in high school when they're 17 or 18, and that test is often used as a basis for college/university admission. At 25, you cannot repeat high school.

Most people are in college/university when they are 18-22 and get undegraduate (Bachelor's) degrees. (However, there are students who are older.) These degrees are focused in one area and are sufficient for people to get jobs like accountants, engineers, teachers, etc. MIT's undergraduate physics program is one such program. Is this what you mean to apply to?

Graduate school is typically for people who already have Bachelor's degrees in their field and want to pursue a course of study that will lead to an advanced degree, such as a Masters or a Doctorate. Though you can be admitted into a graduate department without an undergraduate degree in that field, people typically come from areas at least tangentially related to the department. With a marketing background, it would be very difficult to gain admission to any graduate physics department, since they expect you to be able to do research while you're there.

 

[BONHEAD]

No no, not Graduate degree, i want to get an undergraduate degree in physics, regardless of my degree in visual communication. How will that be possible? another major..How will I get accepted?

 

[Vanadium 50]

You won't.

You have an undergraduate degree already. That means you are not eligible to apply for undergraduate admissions.

 

[Ryker]

If you have a degree already, you have 0% chance of being accepted to MIT as an undergrad. Source? I asked them.

edit: Vanadium 50 just beat me to it.

 

[BONHEAD]

If you have a degree already, you have 0% chance of being accepted to MIT as an undergrad. Source? I asked them.

edit: Vanadium 50 just beat me to it.

Thats shocking ! what's the alternative?

 

[fss]

Thats shocking ! what's the alternative?

Apply somewhere that doesn't disqualify students that already have an undergraduate degree. Sorry, was that too obvious?

 

[BONHEAD]

Apply somewhere that doesn't disqualify students that already have an undergraduate degree. Sorry, was that too obvious?

Ok, but do you know any of these universities? becuase it's going to be mission impossible, to find the right one!
and do you think that MIT would accept me if I applied to another university then apply to MIT as a transfer student?

 

[fss]

Ok, but do you know any of these universities? becuase it's going to be mission impossible, to find the right one!

Maybe you should just give up, then. I have full confidence in your ability to search the internet and fine the information you need... if you really want it.

and do you think that MIT would accept me if I applied to another university then apply to MIT as a transfer student?

No. From what I've seen in your postings in this thread you wouldn't get into MIT in the first place.

 

[deathnote93]

Ah okay.

Not sure if MIT accepts applications from people who already have degrees, why don't you send an email to admissions@mit.edu and find out?

Even if you can apply, the chances of getting accepted are quite bleak for internationals. 3.6% if I recall correctly.

I would strongly suggest applying for around 5-6 colleges apart from MIT so as to have a backup option.

 

[jtbell]

The USA does not have a single unified educational system. The general features are more or less standardized, but many policies vary from one college or university to another.

Note: in the USA, colleges and universities both grant undergraduate (bachelor's) degrees. A college may be an independent institution that is smaller than a university. Or it may be part of a university: universities are usually composed of several colleges (e.g. a college of liberal arts and sciences, a college of engineering, etc.).

Some schools do not accept students to study for a bachelor's degree, who already have a bachelor's degree from another school. Some do accept such students. I don't know what MIT's policy is, but it's surely on their Web site somewhere.

If a school does not accept students for a second bachelor's degree, they might have a special category for students who are not studying towards a specific degree, but are taking specific courses for other purposes. Assuming your visual communications degree is the equivalent of a bachelor's degree in the USA, you can probably combine it with such "extra" courses, and good performance on the Graduate Record Exam, and letters of recommendation, to get into a graduate program (master's degree or Ph.D.).

Keep in mind that admission to MIT is insanely competitive. I think somewhere on the MIT website there are statistics on how many students from each country actually got into MIT this year. You should look for those and see how many students from your country got in.

 

[BONHEAD]

Ah okay.

Even if you can apply, the chances of getting accepted are quite bleak for internationals. 3.6% if I recall correctly.

MIT says that they have more than 50% international students, if I wasn't wrong!

Thank you all for the informations you provided, appreciated so much..physics means a lot to me :)
No hard feelings for those who miss understood and agued fiercely, sorry

 

[BONHEAD]

If a school does not accept students for a second bachelor's degree, they might have a special category for students who are not studying towards a specific degree, but are taking specific courses for other purposes. Assuming your visual communications degree is the equivalent of a bachelor's degree in the USA, you can probably combine it with such "extra" courses, and good performance on the Graduate Record Exam, and letters of recommendation, to get into a graduate program (master's degree or Ph.D.).

Do you mean that I can get a graduate or undergraduate degree test that qualify me to get a degree in physics without attending to college, just do the test?

 

[FroChro]

Bear in mind that although your chances to get to MIT as undergrad are negligible, you can go there for graduate school after you finish your physics undergraduate studies somewhere else.

Also...

physics means a lot to me

if that is true, then don't constrain yourself to MIT, there are lot of other good places where you can study physics.

 

[jtbell]

You would not actually have an undergraduate (bachelor's) degree in physics, but if you can manage to take the equivalent physics coursework at a school that let's you take them as a non-degree-seeking student, at least some physics graduate programs will probably accept that. (Of course you also need the other standard things like letters of recommendation, and take the general GRE and physics GRE exams.)

 

[kramer733]

I'm just going to be blunt here but you probably aren't going to get into MIT for physics in undergraduate or graduate. Just go to some other school. I don't see what the problem is.

 

[lurky]

Why not just stay home and do physics there? Surely it will be a lot cheaper and you wouldn't have to worry about standardized tests. Don't try to go somewhere just for the prestige. I did that, once, and the experience ended up being pretty bad (I never did homework because I was too busy being a tourist). Thankfully, I realized what was happening before it really damaged my academic record beyond repair, and I got out.

 

[deathnote93]

MIT says that they have more than 50% international students, if I wasn't wrong!

http://mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/admissions_statistics/index.shtml

You can clearly see that only 131 internationals were admitted, as opposed to 1545 domestic applicants.

---

The above was admission statistics. For students studying there, see http://mitadmissions.org/topics/pulse/incoming_freshman_class_profile/index.shtml

92% are domestic, which means only 8% international.

---Don't let that discourage you from applying to MIT though. But be a little pragmatic and apply to a few more colleges also.

Edit: Going by previous replies, you can't apply anywzy.

 

[twofish-quant]

I smell troll.

 

[Pyrrhus]

I think there is a general trend of misguided new students into physics.

First, there's a difference between learning about a topic, and a learning a topic. For example, you can learn about physics by reading Michio Kaku or Stephen Hawkins books, or you can learn about economics by reading The Economist. However, you perhaps only gathered a small intuition on the whole subject. You did not learn any of the underlying axioms, lemmas and theorems in physics or economics, and definitely have no idea about the level of mathematical sophistication (i.e. tools) required to solve physics or economics problems at different levels.

Second, remember your objective is learning physics. Your objective is not getting into MIT. It will definitely be nice to go to the "best" places in physics, but again "best" depends on the ranking criteria you assign. For some students, it is better to learn in small personalized environments such as a small colleges rather than big state school or private schools. In addition, schools like MIT or CalTech may become to high paced for you, while in a State School you could go at your own speed and still be able to achieve your objective. Remember, your diploma might say Bachelor (or PhD) in Physics from MIT, but still that does not mean success in your field. That is entirely dependent on you, given some external factors.

Third, I think as you should know that if you're not passionate about your pursuit, you'll not succeed. I am not a physicist, but also as a Ph.D. in sciences (social sciences to be exact) I know there's a lot of TEDIOUS and BORING calculations in your mathematical models. And to be honest, if you can't keep interest, you won't get past them, and eventually might even drop out. I am sure that the way Science is done is not as it is presented in Hollywood films, TV series or even some books.

Given all these points, please do reconsider again if you truly want to follow throught

 

[BONHEAD]

Bear in mind that although your chances to get to MIT as undergrad are negligible, you can go there for graduate school after you finish your physics undergraduate studies somewhere else.

if that is true, then don't constrain yourself to MIT, there are lot of other good places where you can study physics.

ya, I guess that's what going to happen if I didn't get accepted at MIT, I can't tell how much I want to study physics, but I know that if I ever wanted to learn something; I do my best to learn it the right way, and we all know that MIT is considered one of the top universities that teaches physics in the best ways possible, especially if you want to learn about quantum mechanics. Thats my opinion, I don't know!

I think that my options now are limited! bomer

 

[BONHEAD]

I think there is a general trend of misguided new students into physics.

Second, remember your objective is learning physics. Your objective is not getting into MIT. It will definitely be nice to go to the "best" places in physics, but again "best" depends on the ranking criteria you assign. For some students, it is better to learn in small personalized environments such as a small colleges rather than big state school or private schools. In addition, schools like MIT or CalTech may become to high paced for you, while in a State School you could go at your own speed and still be able to achieve your objective. Remember, your diploma might say Bachelor (or PhD) in Physics from MIT, but still that does not mean success in your field. That is entirely dependent on you, given some external factors.

Third, I think as you should know that if you're not passionate about your pursuit, you'll not succeed. I am not a physicist, but also as a Ph.D. in sciences (social sciences to be exact) I know there's a lot of TEDIOUS and BORING calculations in your mathematical models. And to be honest, if you can't keep interest, you won't get past them, and eventually might even drop out. I am sure that the way Science is done is not as it is presented in Hollywood films, TV series or even some books.

Given all these points, please do reconsider again if you truly want to follow throught

I really like your advice, and you gave a good point of view here. The good thing is that i realize what awaits for me in physics and I know that there is theories that can kill many of your brain cells just by trying to understand them, and that's what I like about physics.
I can't see the all the way ahead of me, but I have an idea of what could come across my way, just a slight idea, and it's okay, life is already hard enough for me, so why not let it be hard while I'm doing the thing I love?
And why MIT? well, just to learn what I love with passion and learn it the right way.