How to immediately reduce the US fuel demand

[Ivan Seeking]

It struck me other day that there is a very easy way to signficantly reduce the US fuel demand; that is to say, easy compared to many other options.

In anticipation of the Los Angeles Summer Olympics, in what year...1980 I think, LA made a great effort to reduce traffic on the roads by, among other thing, asking companies to stagger their work shifts. Completely voluntary, by spreading the traffic out, the effort was so effective that in fact when the Olympics came, the freeways were as empty as I'd ever seen them. There were no traffic jams.

IIRC, a car uses about 30-50% as much fuel when idling as it does driving at full speed. This may have improved in recent years, but I would bet that the fuel consumption at idle is still significant. I also know that LA [city] living can mean hours stuck in traffic with the engine idling. So, using this logic, it seems possible that we could reduce demand in the cities by managing the traffic patterns more effectively; esp by staggering shifts as was done in LA. In principle and shooting from the hip, it would seem that we could reduce demand by as much as 50% [for some sectors of the population] or more. Consider that during peak hours, the average freeway speed is about 20-30 MPH or less.

 

[blimkie]

I think that is an excelent idea. At constructions sites and free way jams u sit in traffic for hourr,burn a lot of gas and don't get anywhere. It would still be incredibly difficult to manage the traffic tho considering urban planners are alwyas trying to overcome this. I hope to own a hybring when i am older then waste no gas in traffic jams!

 

[Pengwuino]

Hey if it works for LA, then that's one hell of an idea.

However, can it be permanent? Sounds like the olympic game idea was temporary and might have had a lot of problems that would have had to have been "toughed out". Plus of course, this won't effect demand that much since when you really get down to it, traffic jam-based waste probably accounts for a incredibly low amount of gas. Most cities just really don't have that bad of traffic problems and a few construction projects could probably easily outdo the entire economy having to screw up its workers' hours.

Here in Fresno, we have it pretty bad, even compared to LA but when it comes down to it, its only for a few hours a day and the new freeways have made the situation much better since you now have 3 freeways going to the north side of town.

Maybe the solution is more roads! Oddly enough I was wondering what exactly causes traffic jams a few hours ago when i was driving home. What exactly does cause it? Theres always a traffic jam at this one part of 41 every day at the same time... but I was thinking about it and it made no sense. All the off-ramps have a LOT of space to allow cars to back up. Is it bad driving? Fresno has its share of s*** drivers... so maybe that's it lol.

 

[blimkie]

yea maybe if you guys got the demand down there south of the boarder we woulnt ahve to pay as much up here! jokes
but damn tho few eeks ago the gas was up around a 1.25$ a litre! that's like 5 bucks a gallon!

 

[Pengwuino]

Some guy on another forum who lives in Canada said he was payen $2.50/litre a few daysa go.

 

[Evo]

I say telecommuting is the way to go. People do not need to drive to an office to sit on the phone or in front of a computer. Unless you need to physically touch someone or physically move objects, you can do your job at home. Just think of the millions of workers that would take off the roads! Think how much quality of life would improve for all of those workers!

I worked out of my home for 13 years and they were the most productive years of my life. I slept more, felt better, worked harder, and had more time to spend with my family.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I say telecommuting is the way to go. People do not need to drive to an office to sit on the phone or in front of a computer. Unless you need to physically touch someone or physically move objects, you can do your job at home. Just think of the millions of workers that would take off the roads! Think how much quality of life would improve for all of those workers!

I worked out of my home for 13 years and they were the most productive years of my life. I slept more, felt better, worked harder, and had more time to spend with my family.

That's true! I am a huge fan of telecommuting as well. In fact, my business couldn't exist without it.

Did you ever read The Third Wave by Toffler [Future Shock]?

 

[Pengwuino]

I doubt that evo. For the 9 hours your stuck at work, you'll probably trade that in for 9 hours at home where you will inevitably find it more convenient to go off to the store or see a movie or some crap like that. People are lazy and want to go places, work keeps them in place.

 

[blimkie]

That is also a good idea. Alot of use driving goes on these days because people are lazy. I walk to school everyday rather than drive. I actually like the exercise.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I doubt that evo. For the 9 hours your stuck at work, you'll probably trade that in for 9 hours at home where you will inevitably find it more convenient to go off to the store or see a movie or some crap like that. People are lazy and want to go places, work keeps them in place.

Sure, but after they get fired, they'll get the hang of it the next time.

 

[Pengwuino]

Sure, but after they get fired, they'll get the hang of it the next time.

How would you get fired if you are working at home though

Whose to say that "trip to the bathroom" wasn't an ampm run. I could definitely get to the ampm from here much quicker then some people take in the bathroom.

 

[Evo]

I doubt that evo. For the 9 hours your stuck at work, you'll probably trade that in for 9 hours at home where you will inevitably find it more convenient to go off to the store or see a movie or some crap like that. People are lazy and want to go places, work keeps them in place.

No, Ivan and I can both attest to how hard you work when you work at home.

If a person is a complete moron and can't work unsupervised - fire them.

The great thing about working at home is that you "can" make your own schedule and do little chores in the middle of the day if necessary because you can make up the time at any point during the day or night.

edit:I see Ivan and I are in tune tonight.

 

[Pengwuino]

No, Ivan and I can both attest to how hard you work when you work at home.

If a person is a complete moron and can't work unsupervised - fire them.

The great thing about working at home is that you "can" make your own schedule and do little chores in the middle of the day if necessary because you can make up the time at any point during the day or night.

That proves my point. That "little chore" could be going off to get some food or whatever pops into peoples head. And also, most people are complete morons that need 24/7 supervision like children. Work is not enough for them! And its not how hard you work, its how many times your put into a situation where you can just run off and drive somewhere whereas you would normally be unable to. Every impulse turns into a trip whereas people normally have to consolidate their plans into 1 trip taken at the end of the day "on my way home from work".

 

[blimkie]

Mind you I am not in a career yet but when i try to do school work at home i get side trackes easily by random things such as televsion and music and i tend to eat more. I spend a lot of tiem on this site since i have found out abaout it i should be stduying for a test right now!

 

[Evo]

That proves my point. That "little chore" could be going off to get some food or whatever pops into peoples head. And also, most people are complete morons that need 24/7 supervision like children. Work is not enough for them! And its not how hard you work, its how many times your put into a situation where you can just run off and drive somewhere whereas you would normally be unable to. Every impulse turns into a trip whereas people normally have to consolidate their plans into 1 trip taken at the end of the day "on my way home from work".

My entire department when I worked at AT&T worked from home. We had tens of thousands of people nationwide working from home and no one had a problem. It's called having a brain.

 

[Art]

How would you get fired if you are working at home though

Whose to say that "trip to the bathroom" wasn't an ampm run. I could definitely get to the ampm from here much quicker then some people take in the bathroom.

Your bosses will still know if the work isn't being done.

The days of managers micro managing employees are long gone in most enlightened industries. Employees are 'empowered' these days. They are set agreed goals and targets and are expected to be skilled and hardworking enough to achieve them. If they don't then pretty soon it's bye bye.

 

[Pengwuino]

Yes but you guys are all missing the point. Its not whether you get your work done or if you feel better, its about whether you are driving more or less. My contention is that if you are at home, you are free to drive off places to do various tasks knowing full well that you can just do your work a little later then you normally do or start earlier where as at a real brick and morter place, you arent normally allowed to just drive off go to do some quick shopping or get some food.

 

[blimkie]

very good point. Except you might still be saving gas working from home just running around the corner to the store if you would usually have a half hour to an hour commute to work

 

[Ivan Seeking]

People still need to shop and whatnot. But by far, the major fuel consumer for most people is the work commute.

 

[Evo]

Yes but you guys are all missing the point. Its not whether you get your work done or if you feel better, its about whether you are driving more or less. My contention is that if you are at home, you are free to drive off places to do various tasks knowing full well that you can just do your work a little later then you normally do or start earlier where as at a real brick and morter place, you arent normally allowed to just drive off go to do some quick shopping or get some food.

Trust me, you won't be driving during work hours very often because you'll get fired for not doing your job. Necessary trips will need to be done anyway, even if you work in an office.

Penqwuino, many studies have been done for many years and telecommuting works, it's successful, and saves a huge amount of money and gas.

 

[Pengwuino]

What study says it conserves gas and how did they determine it?

They couldn't just arbitrarily say since they don't drive to work, they aren't using as much gas.

I just don't buy it. How many people really have jobs that can be replaced by someone working at home plus are people who drive an hour to work plus are people who won't take the freedom of working at home as a way to put more miles on their vehicle. Whether you do your job well or not, work still keeps you in a specific building and unable to access your vehicle. When your at home, you can put off work by "staying late" or starting early and not get fired but you will still use more gas in the end for most people.

 

[SOS2008]

Tele-commuting is great for many types of jobs, and would help conserve. Here in the Southwest we have "urban sprawl" that makes public transportation less effective. Still, a light rail built above freeways would be far better than gas guzzling buses that block traffic. Of course moving to other sources of fuel that are cleaner and or/hybrids can be done immediately. I always wondered why sewage treatment plants don't produce methane (natural gas prices are soaring too), but that's going OT.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Penguino, for most people it's simple math. Next, there are already a large number of people who telecommute. And finally, most people don't spend hours driving to the store each week. But most people in the cities spend at least 10 hrs a week in traffic. I know of people who commute up to three hours each way, every day.

 

[edward]

The way to save gas is simple. Outsource most of our jobs to countries where people ride bicycles to work. Opps we are already doing that.

Seriously I think it would help if we could find some way ,perhaps with tax incentives, to get people to live closer to where they work. Tax incentives could be; state ,local, and federal in origin.

I also live in the Southwest, and there are so called "master planned communities" sprouting up 40 miles from town and from jobs. Local planners need to do a better job.

 

[Pengwuino]

Penguino, for most people it's simple math. Next, there are already a large number of people who telecommute. And finally, most people don't spend hours driving to the store each week. But most people in the cities spend at least 10 hrs a week in traffic. I know of people who commute up to three hours each way, every day.

"most people in the cities". Where did you get this fact and what cities are we talking about here. LA, sure.. but 10 hours a week in traffic jams is pushing it for most places

 

[blimkie]

The way to save gas is simple. Outsource most of our jobs to countries where people ride bicycles to work. Opps we are already doing that.

Seriously I think it would help if we could find some way ,perhaps with tax incentives, to get people to live closer to where they work. Tax incentives could be; state ,local, and federal in origin.

I also live in the Southwest, and there are so called "master planned communities" sprouting up 40 miles from town and from jobs. Local planners need to do a better job.

what about billions of people who live out in the subrubs and commute to work every day. Thjere supposed to just sell there houses and move into the city?

 

[Pengwuino]

billions of people? :P

 

[Evo]

Where did you get this fact and what cities are we talking about here. LA, sure.. but 10 hours a week in traffic jams is pushing it for most places

I hate to tell you this but 10 hours a week is probably less than average. I used to spend over 20 hours per week commuting. Bad weather, we're talking closer to 30. It could easily take me 2 1/2 - 3 hours to get to work in the morning, same thing going home.

 

[blimkie]

well not billions that was just an exageration heh but surely millions

 

[Evo]

what about billions of people who live out in the subrubs and commute to work every day. Thjere supposed to just sell there houses and move into the city?

Yeah, and all of the people that already live in those homes near the jobs will be forced into the streets.

 

[edward]

Tele-commuting is great for many types of jobs, and would help conserve. Here in the Southwest we have "urban sprawl" that makes public transportation less effective. Still, a light rail built above freeways would be far better than gas guzzling buses that block traffic

Ahh yes you then must live in the Phoenix area, the ugly stepsister of Tucson

We have had a referendum on light rail here and the voters turned it down. Automobiles seem to be such an extension of people's personalities that they fear some loss of identity without them. From the light rail cars they would see others sitting in their powerful vehicles, which would leave the light railers feeling; lost, left out, impotent, unimportant and depressed.

We need something to lift them above this morass, something like a monorail where they could always look down upon those 300 horse power kiddie cars.
A monorail system is also cheaper to build because it requires the taking of much less public property.

 

[Pengwuino]

We have had a referendum on light rail here and the voters turned it down. Automobiles seem to be such an extension of people's personalities that they fear some loss of identity without them. From the light rail cars they would see others sitting in their powerful vehicles, which would leave the light railers feeling; lost, left out, impotent, unimportant and depressed.

Damn straight. I love my car and love driving... but i want a damn light rail system in the Central Valley. Not today... not tomorrow... but today damn it!

It'd be awesome to be able to just think one day "hey I want to find some place that is more pathetic then Fresno, CA" and take a quick 2 hour trip to Oakland.

 

[Townsend]

I would say the single best way to reduce the current rate of fuel consumption is to make SUVs, Vans, and minivans illegal to drive on public streets...

There are completely pointless and a danger to everyone not driving one...

 

[blimkie]

i don't believe making suv, vans, and minivans illegal is a good solution, it would be if it was a law, but too many people would vote against it i don't think the bill would pass.

 

[Pengwuino]

How bout we just kill off half the population.

No one will miss LA or NY.

Hey they say give me liberty or give me death. I'll take the liberty of owning an SUV in the future and everyone who doesn't think i should can be given death.