How To Keep Options Open For Astroparticle + Advanced Propulsion Physics?

[Ascendant0]

I'm a current undergrad in my 3rd year, and I'm trying to get things in check to keep my options open for my two biggest passions for grad school and thereafter.

I'm interested in theoretical physics relating to dark energy, dark matter, black holes, and the like. At the same time, even more so, my biggest passion is advanced propulsion physics, but exclusively tied to ftl travel/warp drive research.

For the latter, I know there is very few organizations/labs that do this type of research, considering the vast majority feel we lack the technology to do this in any negligible way at this time. But, it is by far what I'm most passionate about, and so I'd really like to keep options open for it. At the same time, I don't want to put all my eggs in that basket, and would like to keep my options open for dark matter and dark energy (which I feel in some ways could be tied to warp drives, but that's another discussion)

I had a mentoring session with someone in my college today. His area of expertise is astronomy, so he gave me some good info and tips regarding astrophysics/astroparticle physics. At first, he thought I was referring to engineering, but when I clarified what I was interested in, it was a field outside his area, so he wasn't sure what to suggest or to even take to keep those options open

With that said, would advanced propulsion physics more so fall into engineering, or when it comes to warp drives, would it still be considered a focus in physics? Would there be any feasible way to work on being qualified to do both? Even if I can't find a job after grad school in advanced propulsion, I would love to at least have the knowledge to try and work on it myself in my own free time; possibly even work on grants later down the road to open my own lab (as I do have experience running a couple businesses already)

Anyone have any suggestions on how to juggle these two?

 

[Frabjous]

There is no field of ftl/warp research. There is some estoteric theory, principly in general relativity.
You need to identify researchers that are doing things that interest you and then apply to their schools.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You as ~15 years away from being able to direct your own research. Focus on what is on your plate.

 

[Ascendant0]

There is no field of ftl/warp research. There is some estoteric theory, principly in general relativity.
You need to identify researchers that are doing things that interest you and then apply to their schools.

Thank you. I am aware that there is no official field of study for that type of research. I just figured that maybe for that particular field, they prefer certain sub-fields, or if it is more so just about someone looking to do what they need that they feel is competent enough and knowledgeable enough to do the job. Seems like most likely the latter

So then I assume my best bet is pursue astroparticle physics or astrophysics as far as grad school, and when it comes to advanced propulsion physics, just try to soak up and keep up with what I'm able for in case any opportunities come open for internships (or later on, career paths) in that?

 

[Ascendant0]

You as ~15 years away from being able to direct your own research. Focus on what is on your plate.

Yea, I figured at least 10yrs or so, if not more. I'm just trying to prepare as best as possible to head that direction with things. Trying to figure out *what* to put on my plate at this point as far as options. I have to try to find an REU for this coming summer within the next few months. The sooner, the better, as my advisor and mentor stated the deadline is usually Jan or Feb, but many (the preferable ones) fill up sooner than that.

 

[Frabjous]

Thank you. I am aware that there is no official field of study for that type of research. I just figured that maybe for that particular field, they prefer certain sub-fields, or if it is more so just about someone looking to do what they need that they feel is competent enough and knowledgeable enough to do the job. Seems like most likely the latter

So then I assume my best bet is pursue astroparticle physics or astrophysics as far as grad school, and when it comes to advanced propulsion physics, just try to soak up and keep up with what I'm able for in case any opportunities come open for internships (or later on, career paths) in that?

While there are scientific thoughts on the topic, it is not an established scientific topic. The best one can hope for is funding for speculative theoretical research.

 

[Ascendant0]

While there are scientific thoughts on the topic, it is not an established scientific topic. The best one can hope for is funding for speculative theoretical research.

Thanks. I am actually seeing a good handful doing research into the topics. While I'm well aware it's not something we have the technology to accomplish now, there are organizations trying to lay out the roadmap to get there, attempting to reduce the requirements to create a warp drive (to get us there faster), and other related matters. I mean I understand it's impractical to expect us to build a warp drive that works to any significant extent in the near future, but if I can even be a part of getting us there even a decade faster than we would've if I didn't help, it would be well worth it

I feel like interstellar travel is vital to our advancement. Number one, for our survival. But number two, if we were to encounter life on other worlds, see how insignificant this world is, how insignificant our differences, beliefs, etc., then I do feel eventually, it will drive humanity as a whole towards a greater purpose. I feel we desperately need that at this point. We are still so primitive in that regard, and I want to do anything and everything I possibly can to help us towards a better future as quickly as we possibly can.

 

[renormalize]

I am actually seeing a good handful doing research into the topics. While I'm well aware it's not something we have the technology to accomplish now, there are organizations trying to lay out the roadmap to get there, attempting to reduce the requirements to create a warp drive (to get us there faster), and other related matters.

I am skeptical of this claim. Can you cite, say, 5 or 6 credible organizations (e.g., accredited universities, official government labs, successful commercial enterprises) that are conducting this research and laying-out this roadmap directed toward warp drives?

 

[berkeman]

I'm a current undergrad in my 3rd year, and I'm trying to get things in check to keep my options open for my two biggest passions for grad school and thereafter.

I feel like interstellar travel is vital to our advancement. Number one, for our survival. But number two, if we were to encounter life on other worlds, see how insignificant this world is, how insignificant our differences, beliefs, etc., then I do feel eventually, it will drive humanity as a whole towards a greater purpose. I feel we desperately need that at this point. We are still so primitive in that regard, and I want to do anything and everything I possibly can to help us towards a better future as quickly as we possibly can.

I need to be blunt, since this is the Academic Advising forum and not the SciFi forum. You are far enough through your undergrad that you have the math and physics tools and skills to start forming "non-existence proofs". That means that you need to think about the math and physics behind the things that you are saying ("interstellar travel") and do the calculations to understand what is worth working on versus what should be abandoned to free up more time for you to use your creative technical skills to do productive things.

Luckily in my Engineering career I came to understand "non-existence proofs" fairly early, which helped me avoid non-productive paths and focus on productive possibilities.

 

[Ascendant0]

I am skeptical of this claim. Can you cite, say, 5 or 6 credible organizations (e.g., accredited universities, official government labs, successful commercial enterprises) that are conducting this research and laying-out this roadmap directed toward warp drives?

The more I'm looking into it to find the best links, I'm realizing a lot of them are tied to this organization:
https://appliedphysics.org/warp-drive/

From what I gather from the site, they actually provide grants for this type of research, so many seem to have ties to them. Multiple sites bounced me back to them.

Eagleworks Laboratories at NASA is another. Here's a couple links giving some info about it:

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20110023492
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20140005831

There is another, I believe a private one, that I've saved on my favorites list on my PC. I'm going to have to dig through later, as I don't have time to open it up and look through now. Their research is focused specifically on practical ways to create the Alcubierre drive without the need for exotic matter

I just started looking deeper into this for labs to reach out to within the last few days, and this was an exam week, I still have two homeworks to get done, and a large lab project that I need to wrap up this weekend with my lab partners. So, it's still a work in progress, I'm saving sites to my favorites to look through, organizations to look into and potentially reach out to, etc.

 

[Ascendant0]

I need to be blunt, since this is the Academic Advising forum and not the SciFi forum. You are far enough through your undergrad that you have the math and physics tools and skills to start forming "non-existence proofs". That means that you need to think about the math and physics behind the things that you are saying ("interstellar travel") and do the calculations to understand what is worth working on versus what should be abandoned to free up more time for you to use your creative technical skills to do productive things.

Luckily in my Engineering career I came to understand "non-existence proofs" fairly early, which helped me avoid non-productive paths and focus on productive possibilities.

I appreciate the honesty, and so as I always do, I'll do the same...

I know most feel warp drives are a lost cause, that it's never going to happen, not possible, etc. Those are the same mindsets of people who discouraged Newton, Galileo, Einstein, and the like. You don't make breakthroughs listening to what the masses tell you. You make breakthroughs by ignoring them and proving them wrong.

While I don't have time to delve too deep into it now due to all I have due (we're catching up after two consecutive hurricanes hit our area, so it's crazy in my classes right now), I will touch on something very briefly. I know very well I have a lot to learn. I know warp drives are more of what most consider sci-fi at this point, as we are a long ways from any conceivable technology to even get close to working on feasible warp drives at this time. You're telling me old news, though I do appreciate it, as I know you have good intentions.

With that said, many say ftl travel isn't even possible. The expansion of space and resulting relative velocities of various celestial objects alone proves that wrong. That's a part of the reason I'm interested in dark matter and dark energy (of course for this in particular, pertaining to dark energy and its involvement in the expansion). There is not only the vast majority of our universe there that we don't fully understand, but it's also a part of our universe that enables an exception to the ftl restrictions. Who's to say that we can't harness dark energy's ability to take advantage of that exception? With how little we understand it, it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that we can replicate and manipulate similar effects on a smaller scale. Not only use it, but control the expansion rate within a given area, possibly even reverse it as a contraction as well. This is something I considered when physics was just a hobby decades ago, long before I ever read any articles tying the two together.

I have never cared what people said I could or couldn't do. When I took a director role when an organization was horribly in the red, they told me we were losing four satellite branches and nothing could be done about it. I completely disregarded them, and as a result, saved three of the four. And even with the fourth we lost, I saved the jobs of 3/4 of them by creating roles for them in our other locations. Profits increased 130% within six months, and they promoted me to regional manager to help other organizations in our area.

Albeit this was a completely different field than physics, but regardless, just because others think it can't be done, that's irrelevant imo. What matters is the evidence, the possiblities, and researching it as deeply and thoroughly as possible to do all you can regardless of what others think.

The people who think they can't do something most certainly never will. And like I said, I'm keeping it practical - astroparticle physics or astrophysics will be what I work towards getting a PhD in. But, I'm certainly never going to give up on researching warp drives, dark energy's possible role in making it happen, etc. But yes, I do greatly appreciate the candor and yes, I am keeping it real here.

 

[renormalize]

...many say ftl travel isn't even possible. The expansion of space and resulting relative velocities of various celestial objects alone proves that wrong. That's a part of the reason I'm interested in dark matter and dark energy (of course for this in particular, pertaining to dark energy and its involvement in the expansion). There is not only the vast majority of our universe there that we don't fully understand, but it's also a part of our universe that enables an exception to the ftl restrictions.

Do you have a scholarly reference for this claim about dark energy and faster-than-light? (I've certainly heard of the Alcubierre drive and traversable wormholes, but as far as I know those are associated with negative energy, not dark energy.)

 

[renormalize]

Thanks for the references, I will take a look.

 

[Ascendant0]

Do you have a scholarly reference for this claim about dark energy and faster-than-light? (I've certainly heard of the Alcubierre drive and traversable wormholes, but as far as I know those are associated with negative energy, not dark energy.)

Yes, negative energy and exotic matter are the more prevalent ones. Dark energy is something I had considered a long time ago. But, physics was just a hobby. The most I had read up to that point were books for the layman by people like Michio Kaku, Hawking, Feynman, and a few of the other well-known ones at the time.

More recently, I found an article through one of the sites I browse at times. There's numerous ones on my favorites list, so not sure which site it was on. In checking on Google Scholar, it seems like there are at least a few on there:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,10&q=dark+energy+warp+drive&btnG=

I don't have time to read through them now, so not sure if the one I had read was on there. It is highly speculative of course because of how little we know about dark energy at this point, but it is a possibility.

 

[Vanadium 50]

(1) Nobody is seriously supporting warp drive. Maybe a travel grant, but not hiring postdocs and students. The job you want does not exist.

(2) If you need to plan out 15 years in advance and then tick all the boxes, you will do poorly in physics and likely be miserable. It just doesn't work like that.

 

[Ascendant0]

(1) Nobody is seriously supporting warp drive. Maybe a travel grant, but not hiring postdocs and students. The job you want does not exist.

(2) If you need to plan out 15 years in advance and then tick all the boxes, you will do poorly in physics and likely be miserable. It just doesn't work like that.

I get that's not how it works, which is why I'm trying to keep my options open. I'm going by the suggestions of both the mentor and my physics advisor, which is to start planning what you *want* to do for grad school, and try to get research under your belt with an REU in the field you're interested in. I certainly can't go into grad school blindly and just randomly take courses. I need to at least have an idea of the path I want to go, which is what I'm trying to work on here.

With that being said, seems like it makes the most sense to keep focused on any REUs relating to dark matter and/or dark energy for the summer, and just keep in mind my other aspirations regarding warp drive research, but that it's impractical to focus on it. That is where my head is at based on all the feedback

 

[Vanadium 50]

The option you want can't be kept open because it doesn't exist.

 

[Choppy]

One (albeit anecdotal) observation I've made over the years is that a lot of people get into physics having been romanticized by popular science books or science fiction concepts. But then as they go through their formal education, their interests mature as they come to understand some of the more pragmatic (though less flashy) problems that different communities are working on, and then end up doing some really valuable work.

 

[CrysPhys]

One (albeit anecdotal) observation I've made over the years is that a lot of people get into physics having been romanticized by popular science books or science fiction concepts. But then as they go through their formal education, their interests mature as they come to understand some of the more pragmatic (though less flashy) problems that different communities are working on, and then end up doing some really valuable work.

<<Emphasis added.>> Alternatively ...

But then as they go through their formal education, they come to understand that physics research, in particular experimental physics research, involves a good chunk of grunge work. They become disillusioned, and then end up dropping out.