How to Salvage my Academic Career?

[snatchingthepi]

I also graduated with very little prospects and two degrees (one in physics and the other in music). I tried to stick it out and even moved to another city where I eventually found employment using my music degree at a preschool. My wife and I are not above poor, but we always have enough for rent and food and loans and such. Do your best and know you're not alone.

 

[russ_watters]

Several off-topic asides deleted. Guys: please remember that this thread is there to help the OP, not as a place to argue your personal politics.

 

[jedishrfu]

Now that you've been given all this advice, what do you plan to do?

 

[Jennanana]

Now that you've been given all this advice, what do you plan to do?

@jedishrfu I'm about 35% through that book Dr. Courtney recommended and it's really a smack in the face for how I've always approached job hunting. With what it says in there and the stuff y'all have said here, I have an idea of what I need to do, but it's a lot of info. I'm working on getting it all solidified but trust me making this topic will not be on the list of things I regret doing. Thank you all

 

[David VH]

Without intending to be mean, all I read in this topic is "it's complicated" and "trouble follows me around". I think it would serve you well to uncomplicate (is that a word?) things. No one wants to hear things like "for personal reasons I do not wish to divulge", serious. Just own the situation and say it won't be a problem for the job you are applying for.

 

[ShadowMeson]

I got a year of volunteer research experience in two labs. I feel like that helped me a lot.

Was that performed after your graduation? Wish for more information about that.

 

[Karen Anne]

I think student loans are not erased by bankruptcy.

 

[jedishrfu]

Its possible to get them erased but you need to jump through some hardship hoops:

https://studentloanhero.com/featured/student-loan-bankruptcy-discharge/

 

[arydberg]

I'm not sure how to best put this, but I'm in what seems like an almost un-fixable predicament. I graduated in 2015 with two degrees, one of which is a B.S. in Physics with a minor in Astronomy, the other a B.A. in Russian Langauge (did that one not really for career prospects but because I wanted to learn the language).

I've struggled to find a good job due to my mediocre performance in my Physics classes. I struggled in school for a multitude of reasons, almost all of which are deeply personal and probably not relevant, as employers or higher-education programs don't care about those details. My transcript speaks for itself. In a way, that's true, but suffice it so say I'm basically a different person now than I was even 1.5 years ago.

My cumulative GPA was 2.93. My in-major Russian GPA was 4.0 until I got an A- in my last class for it. I don't want to even do the math to figure out how bad my in-major Physics GPA was. I always performed solidly in classes I took over Summer breaks to bring back with me in the following Fall as transfer credit (I did this to bring my total time for these unrelated degrees down to 5 years). I have zero research experience, because I did ROTC my entire college career, which absorbed all my time and gave me the "guarantee of a job" when I was done, only to be medically disqualified in the end. People like me can't even join any military branch until July of 2017, so maybe that's my literally last option if I had to, but I don't think I would feel safe going that route with my life anymore.

I'm okay with knowing I could have done better. I know that it was not typical of me to perform so poorly, and frankly I'm embarrassed, and don't really divulge that information very often. Almost everyone who knows me has been surprised to find out I am currently struggling because I didn't go well in school (if that detail ever comes up). They all assumed, based on knowing me on a more personal level, that of course I did well. I typically excel at my work, am very driven to get what I want (now), and unfortunately lately have been driven to desperation.

Being from a lower middle-class family, I was very strongly pushed to "go to college, get a good job, live the good life" that my family hadn't ever aspired to. I am the only one in my immediate family to finish college. I lived with my single mother my whole life, father not involved, and she had her own financial problems. But somehow I was unable to qualify for much aid at all, maybe $500 is the most I ever got. The entire rest of 5 years, plus summers, was financed through private lenders. I know I was a complete idiot for doing this now, but I didn't know before just how bad it was. If I did great in school, it could have been less of a problem, too. I should mention now that I am in the USA. Private student loans are quite nearly impossible to get rid of here except by paying up, and lenders are impossible to work with should you experience financial hardship.

I have $90,000 left in private student loan debt. $25,000 in federal debt that I am not required to make payments on because I'm so poor. I got a second job three weeks ago. Before that, my first job paid very minimally. I was lucky to bring in ~$900+ a month. With this second job, that should improve by ~$400 a month. But as it stands right now, I am literally bankrupt. My boss lent me $20 for gas to get to work next week until I get my paycheck (talk about embarrassing--I was holding back tears as it was happening). I spent the last of my money last week on cheap groceries. I am couch-surfing for 2 more weeks until I have a stable place to stay.

Suffice it to say, I have had enough of this. I'm quite literally floundering, with no real idea how to improve my situation.

I've thought of hardcore studying and trying to ace the Physics GRE, but the more I think about that, the less practical it seems. Even if somehow I manage to catch up on what I feel like is a shaky base of knowledge, and even if I do SUPER well on that test, my academic record is still unimpressive and there is almost no reason to pick me over anyone else.

I've thought about taking classes whenever possible, wherever possible, and to try and do something with those. But do what exactly? I don't know. Apply them to another bachelor's degree and be damn sure I'm the best student they've ever seen? That seems impractical. Though if I did, I think I would go for Computer Science or something.

Then I heard about this concept of "post-baccalaureate" studies that are normally done in medical fields. I did some Google-fu to see if it's a thing in physics or astrophysics, and lo and behold it is, although quite rare. Maybe this sort of program could be my ticket. If I can apply and somehow get accepted, my loans can go into deferment since I would be a student a student, postponing that crap-shoot but at least providing some relief. I could finally get some research experience which is literally only a positive compared to what I have now.

I don't know, though. Being so down in the dumps and stuck so far in this rut has made it difficult for me to sell myself and talk up my skills when I feel like I've failed.

Does anyone have any advice?

It's a long term effort. One posibility is working for the government. They usually don't look beyond the degree. If it fits it can be very good. If not government jobs tend to suck so you need to think about it. Also with the government the russian may be a real assett.

 

[arydberg]

It's a long term effort. One posibility is working for the government. They usually don't look beyond the degree. If it fits it can be very good. If not government jobs tend to suck so you need to think about it. Also with the government the russian may be a real assett.

As for your skills sit down and list all the things you have done that you feel good about. This is the starting point.

 

[arydberg]

As for your skills sit down and list all the things you have done that you feel good about. This is the starting point.

Also see:
http://www.studentdebtrelief.us/forgiveness/obama-student-loan-forgiveness/

 

[JorisL]

Yeah I suppose but any time I've searched for a job taking advantage of that "skill," they need someone who is so fluent they're basically native. I'm not confident I'm that good. Once again, who knows, maybe I'm just not looking in the right places

Don't underestimate yourself. Most of the time they list the absolute perfect profile. In the sense that when you can tick off all qualifications you are basically hired on the spot at least if you prepare for your interviews.

I'm going to add some bits to 2 pieces of advice given.

If you know Java well say so in your resume don't be shy and mention those projects as an interviewer might see something there that they like. It's the folks who speak up who get the jobs not so much the quiet ones.

Golden advice, don't belittle yourself. I got the same advice when I received some training for job hunting.
If you learned a lot on your own time mention that explicitly, developers need to self study all the time. Perhaps think of an interesting example to illustrate this skill.

As for your skills sit down and list all the things you have done that you feel good about. This is the starting point

Don't mention things you are critical about when listing stuff you're proud of. This was one of my problems, whenever I look back at something I did I focus on the bad parts.
Project X could be done better if I focused more on ...

In fact most of the things I accomplished so far have parts I don't like even when it's perfectly normal like the other day I contributed to an opensource project and ran into a problem which was explained by the finite precision of floating point numbers. It took me an hour to realize this silly mistake but I did find it. The projects "leader" didn't think of it so no reasonable recruiter would blame you for that.

While job hunting omission isn't necessarily bad, if the company really wants to know about something like that they'll ask.Regarding the layout of a possible resume, I got some good feedback about this template.
By customizing it a little bit you can get a nice product that has all relevant information in a few key positions (hiring managers don't do much more than glance at a resume, or so I'm told). No more than 1 page if possible, pay attention to order if it's not possible.

Its a non-standard layout which will grab their attention regardless. I modified this template to match the resume, using some subtle colors for online viewing.
I really like the header which again grabs attention. I did remove the company address since that's a bit dated especially when sending it through e-mail. It also gives you more space. Again try to keep it short.

Very important: keep the listing close when writing a cover letter. Try to touch on as much of the skills listed without writing a list yourself. Use examples and add some of your personality.
For example if you are applying for a job with a company in the medical sector which talks about ethics on their website, draw a parallel with your own beliefs. (if you are big on ethics) More generic traits might be better as ethics can be a hard exercise.

Once more, prepare for your interview. List good and lesser traits of yourself. Try to spin the bad traits into something good.
For me the go-to example is being chaotic during a project. It's caused by being excited about many aspects of a project which causes me to jump around doing several things at once. I mitigate this chaos by keeping detailed notes of what I did on what part and round up at the end of the day/week.

This does take time, lots of it. Luckily the good and bad exercise should be done only once.

Pfew this became a lot longer than I planned, I hope you can use some of the things I addressed.

 

[Vanadium 50]

ts possible to get them erased but you need to jump through some hardship hoops:

It's more than just jumping through hoops. You need to show not just hardship but undue hardship. This usually means that paying back is not just difficult, or even impossible, but it is a situation that will persist long term. That's not only difficult to do, I don't think it even applies here.

 

[svdt]

.I started my degree course in 1971 in the UK (Nuclear Engineering) ..in those days perhaps 10% went to university , and the government paid everything , living expenses too .I dropped out after 2 years ,I could see where I was headed ...a 9to5 job ...no freedom ... a moderately well paid slave ... I've lived a very varied and free life , with a much higher standard of living than if I had continued univercity ... The best decision I ever made was to drop out.
For youngsters today it's an easy way out to go to university , parents think it's wonderful , and they don't have to face the challenging task of making their way in the real world ... but at the end of three years , the dream comes to an end with a bump ... massive debt and for most , flipping hamburgers in mcdonald's.

In my humble opinion this is unnecessarily pessimistic. I think the data support the general proposition that a young person is still better off with a college degree than without one. Taunting the alleged wrongness of the decision to get a degree doesn't seem to me to do anything at all to fashion a solution.

 

[Mark Harder]

Some ideas, hoping they shake some cobwebs loose: 1.) Have you talked to a military recruiter about how you could put your skills to use in a military job? The combination of the language skills and scientific knowledge, even if your credentials in the latter field are weak, might be synergetic. For example, data concerning Russian scientific/technological activities might be of interest to the military, actually many places in government. 2.) My guess is that you were genuinely interested in Russian language and you must have read some of their literature to get a degree in it. Knowledge of a language plus knowing the history and culture associated are not to be dismissed lightly, esp. if you feel some passion for the stuff. 3.) What were the skills you applied and furthered in your Russian studies? Might these be transferable somehow to careers that interest you? 4.) I didn't read all the comments, but do you truly understand the reasons for your difficulty with physics? Do you feel that your grades truly reflect how well you understand what you were taught? I ask this because there are people, to some extent myself, who just do not test well. I score very high in tests for ADD. We ADDers make stupid mistakes, in calculations for example, that ruin an answer to exam questions we understood and knew how to solve. These are not the sort of difficulties encountered taking exams in general studies, like languages. If a word is misspelled, a name is temporarily confused with another in a lit or history class, instructors will generally understand what you mean and cut you some slack. Not so in a quantitative subject like physics. My college grades in the sciences were consistently lower than all my other classes, and not because the latter were "easy". They could be quite difficult, requiring comprehension of fields of endeavor a high-school education simply can't teach adequately. Learning about the social sciences - anthropology, psychology, sociology, political science - not in predigested textbook form, but from original sources, was extremely difficult for me. Reading a literary text in a foreign language and applying your knowledge of a foreign culture to your reading in order to come up with something interesting to say in an essay was no snap, I'd venture. So ask yourself, just what was it about physics, not Russian, that hung you up? 5.) There are career counselors out there who can help in cases like yours. Try to find one with some understanding of scientific/technical careers if you can. 6.) I came from a lower-middle class background, the first generation to attend college and all that. I felt a lot of pressure to succeed in a sort of narrow way - to pursue the kind of training that would lead straightforwardly to a well-defined career path, easy for the parents, and myself as well, to comprehend. Physics (not my choice, I was a biochemist.) would be one of these. Degrees in languages, history, literature (unless you 'wanted to be' a teacher) weren't "practical". They were for dreamers, not people with serious plans, blah, blah, blah. Don't buy it. Don't try to squeeze yourself into a mental straightjacket like that one. For example, I had three friends in college who were all "International Studies" majors. They weren't sure of their direction, but that degree in my college let you study most anything, because, just as it sounds, what subject doesn't have some application in international whatever. One has had a successful career as an editor of a major newspaper; the other two are successful (think penthouses and Park Ave. addresses) lawyers. Not that you have to go the rich lawyer route, but you get the idea.

 

[Delong]

Was that performed after your graduation? Wish for more information about that.

Yeah it was performed after graduation...

 

[Jennanana]

Yeah it was performed after graduation...

@Delong How did you go about finding that? Everywhere I've heard of wants undergrads

 

[Delong]

@Delong How did you go about finding that? Everywhere I've heard of wants undergrads

Well I was basically working for free so zhat was a big part of it. I started out emailing professors for if they have a room for a volunteer. I said I was a recent college graduate and I wanted more research experience.

Eventually one professor said yes there was room and I basically worked in.his lab collecting data for five months. I decided to transition to a different lab that was a better fit for my skills. The professor at the first lab put in a good word for me and I was able to switch to another lab very quickly.

I would keep volunteering but at some point I decided I need to start making money. And its hard to do a job and do research at the same time blah...

 

[sunrah]

The job for a certified translator pays well, and requires a degree in the language which you have.

I second this. I found it relatively easy to get a job as a freelance even without experience and when I started I didn't even have a degree. If you can write a good introductory email, most agencies will send you a brief sample text to translate. Russian->English is also a useful combination to have. If you're interested PM me and I'll send some links to a couple agencies. You can make a good living, but the work is a little tedious.

 

[Logical Dog]

I second this. I found it relatively easy to get a job as a freelance even without experience and when I started I didn't even have a degree. If you can write a good introductory email, most agencies will send you a brief sample text to translate. Russian->English is also a useful combination to have. If you're interested PM me and I'll send some links to a couple agencies. You can make a good living, but the work is a little tedious.

A certified translator is even better than that...they are allowed to be a kind of notary to certify documents for courts and legal matters etc. : -) You need to pass an exam and have a degree in that language and have native proficiency in the other language (english here). It is a bit tedious but even normal translation work pays well.

 

[Mark Harder]

[QUOTE="
Anyway I don't think employers care that much about your GPA. Just getting a degree can be enough to them I think.[/QUOTE]

Yes, common sense would dictate that recommendations and a history of accomplishments are more important than GPAs. However, it's people in the HR departments of large organizations who make hiring decisions. Sadly, in my experience, HR recruiters can be woefully lacking in common sense. Oddly enough, recruiters for federal jobs may require GPAs and transcripts. I was applying for a patent office job once, and I had to write my former grad school University and pay them for a copy of my transcript before my application was complete. This shouldn't be a big deal if you are a recent graduate; but at the time, over 30 yrs had elapsed since college, and 24 yrs since my Ph.D. I have applied to dozens of jobs over my lifetime and this was the only time since college that academic credentials were required. I tried to shrug it off, but the implication that all those years of working in the sciences, publishing record included, weren't enough, that in fact my 'report cards' were at least as important as my real accomplishments felt humiliating. (To top it off, I didn't get the job.) Sometimes I wonder if that requirement isn't a subtle form of age discrimination.
Other than complaining, I want to make the point that retaining your formal credentials can be important in a job search, especially when it's a buyer's market and you're at the mercy of prospective employers.

 

[Jennanana]

Anyway I don't think employers care that much about your GPA. Just getting a degree can be enough to them I think.

Yes, common sense would dictate that recommendations and a history of accomplishments are more important than GPAs. However, it's people in the HR departments of large organizations who make hiring decisions. Sadly, in my experience, HR recruiters can be woefully lacking in common sense. Oddly enough, recruiters for federal jobs may require GPAs and transcripts. I was applying for a patent office job once, and I had to write my former grad school University and pay them for a copy of my transcript before my application was complete. This shouldn't be a big deal if you are a recent graduate; but at the time, over 30 yrs had elapsed since college, and 24 yrs since my Ph.D. I have applied to dozens of jobs over my lifetime and this was the only time since college that academic credentials were required. I tried to shrug it off, but the implication that all those years of working in the sciences, publishing record included, weren't enough, that in fact my 'report cards' were at least as important as my real accomplishments felt humiliating. (To top it off, I didn't get the job.) Sometimes I wonder if that requirement isn't a subtle form of age discrimination.
Other than complaining, I want to make the point that retaining your formal credentials can be important in a job search, especially when it's a buyer's market and you're at the mercy of prospective employers.

Through any sort of "job postings," I can't name even one posting--be it for an actual employee position, internship, anything--that did NOT specify a minimum GPA, or ask for a transcript, or some combo of these. Where are people looking for these places that don't nit-pick past the fact that I graduated? I would like to agree with people telling me it doesn't particularly matter that I did poorly my first two years, but unfortunately I didn't quite recover to that magical 3.0 number mark. This has significantly reduced the number of times I even bother applying anywhere

 

[fresh_42]

This has significantly reduced the number of times I even bother applying anywhere

Well, you could do it anyway. What do you have to lose? We have a saying here: cheekiness wins! A friend of mine once turned this into a quite drastic version involving the devil and some kind of a big heap I don't won't to cite here. I think the hardest part, and I know what I'm talking about and how hard it is, is to gain enough self-respect and certainty such that it transports into your appearance, wording and attitude. And I know that these words can easily be spoken and might be of little help when you're down. The point is, the rest of the world acts according to it. One way to (at least temporarily) build up some positive vibes can be music. (I like this one. However, I didn't get the job then ...) At least music is a possibility for us westeners (in contrast to Tibetan monks which have other methods) to influence our autonomic nervous system. It also is the reason I like Bobby McGee.

 

[arydberg]

I spent 4 years at a local junk university. I failed two courses out of the malice of the instructors while I had passing grades. I failed Astromey because i could not accept a professor in his late nineties. I found german impossible. Then I flunked out.

I hitchhiked to California where I took a math course at Univ. of calif at Berkeley. i think it was taught by Ted Kaczynski the unibomber. Before the final exam the class adverage was 33.

I wound up living in Manhattan where I took night courses at CCNY. Guess What. They actually taught. I could get A's and B's at CCNY when I could not pass classes at the university of junk. I could even pass german. They mailed me my degree 5 years late.

By then tricky Dickey had laid off all aerospace workers so there were no jobs. With a name that sounds jewish I never got a job from my resume. The only thing that worked was to get a temporary job with a temp agency. Usually the company tried to hire me. In my late 50's i got a job at a Ivy League University. Best job I ever had but it took a lifetime to land it. Now i am retired. The only thing that saved us was i invested my retirement funds in the stock market and did well.

Yes life sucks.