How to see this equality (Lagrangian mechanics)

In summary, the conversation discusses the derivation of the equation \ddot{\textbf q} = -\frac{k}{2m}P\textbf q from the Lagrangian equations, using the specific Lagrangian \mathcal L = \frac{m}{2}\langle\dot{\textbf q}, \dot{\textbf q}\rangle - \frac{k}{2}\langle\textbf q, P\textbf q\rangle. The conversation also mentions the use of notations such as \nabla_{\textbf q} and the components of \textbf q and P. The speaker also mentions a possible mistake in the calculation.
  • #1
nonequilibrium
1,439
2
Hello,

Can anybody tell me why [itex]\nabla_{\textbf q} \langle \textbf q, P \textbf q \rangle = P \textbf q[/itex]?

Explanation of notations:
q is an n-dimensional vector: [itex]\textbf q = (q_1, q_2, \cdots, q_n)^T[/itex]
P is an nxn-dimensional, real, Hermitian matrix
[itex]\nabla_{\textbf q} := \left(\frac{\partial}{\partial q_1}, \cdots, \frac{\partial}{\partial q_n} \right)^T[/itex]

Background story: I know the (specific) Lagrangian is [itex]\mathcal L = \frac{m}{2} \langle \dot{\textbf q},\dot{\textbf q} \rangle - \frac{k}{2} \langle \textbf q, P \textbf q \rangle[/itex] and the book then tells me that [itex]\ddot{ \textbf q } = - \frac{k}{2m} P \textbf q[/itex] and I presume that they derived this from the Lagrangian equations [itex]\frac{\mathrm d}{\mathrm dt} \left( \nabla_{\dot{\textbf q}} \mathcal L \right) = \nabla_{\textbf q} \mathcal L[/itex] but to do that I need to have the above equality, right?
 
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  • #2
Are you sure that 1/2 is there? I'm not getting the 1/2 in my calculations. It's much simpler for me to do the calculation in terms of components:

[tex]L=\frac{1}{2}m\sum_k \dot{q}_k^2-\frac{1}{2}k\sum_{n,m}q_n P_{nm} q_m[/tex]

Giving:
[tex]\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}_i}=m\dot{q}_i[/tex]
[tex]\frac{\partial L}{\partial q_i}=-\frac{1}{2}k\sum_{n,m} (\delta_{in}P_{nm}q_m+\delta_{im}q_nP_{nm})[/tex]

Thus by the symmetry of P (real+hermitian = symmetric):
[tex]\frac{\partial L}{\partial q_i}=-k\sum_{n} P_{in}q_n[/tex]

I get then:
[tex]\ddot{q}_i=-\frac{k}{m}\sum_{n} P_{in}q_n[/tex]

This is the component form of your last equation, except I'm missing the factor of 1/2. I could have made a mistake somewhere though.
 

FAQ: How to see this equality (Lagrangian mechanics)

What is Lagrangian mechanics and why is it important?

Lagrangian mechanics is a mathematical framework used to describe the motion of particles and systems in physics. It is important because it provides a more elegant and concise way to analyze and solve complex problems in mechanics.

How is Lagrangian mechanics different from Newtonian mechanics?

Newtonian mechanics is based on the concepts of force and acceleration, while Lagrangian mechanics is based on the concept of energy. In Lagrangian mechanics, the motion of a system is described by a single function, the Lagrangian, which represents the total energy of the system. This approach allows for a more general and efficient way to analyze and solve problems.

3. What is the role of the Lagrangian in Lagrangian mechanics?

The Lagrangian is a function that represents the total energy of a system in terms of its coordinates and velocities. It is used to derive the equations of motion for a system, which can then be solved to determine the behavior of the system over time.

4. How is the Lagrangian used to find the equations of motion?

The Lagrangian is used in the principle of least action, which states that the true path of a system between two points is the one that minimizes the action (the integral of the Lagrangian over time). By varying the action with respect to the coordinates and velocities, the equations of motion can be derived.

5. Can Lagrangian mechanics be applied to all systems?

Yes, Lagrangian mechanics can be applied to any system, as long as the system's motion can be described using coordinates and velocities. It has been successfully applied to a wide range of systems, from simple particles to complex systems of particles and fields.

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