- #1
guyburns
- 32
- 7
- TL;DR Summary
- Will HCl and/or NaOH attack and somehow overcome the waxy coating, so that the plant till uptake glyphosate to kill it?
Background
I live next to the Forth River in NW Tasmania. If it was free of weeds, the bank would be a lovely area, 5 metres below the parallel country road, 20 metres wide and about 800 metres long. But since settlement in the 1850s, introduced weeds have taken over -- blackberries so high I had to cut a tunnel through them to start the clearing process 10 years ago. Worse still, 15 years before that a neighbour planted English Ivy over the road to "beautify" the river bank.
What works on other pests
I've sorted out the blackberries (3 months to die with 1.5% glyphosate); Cape Weed (6 weeks, 1%), Passionfruit vine (8 weeks, 1%), Buffalo Grass (2 weeks, 1%) and so on, but glyphosate has little effect on English Ivy. It's thriving and spreading, now covering about 1/3 of the bank area (5000 sq m) and climbing 10 metres up the gum trees. Here's what Roundup has to say about Ivy.
Trials
Over the last three years I've tried spraying NaOH, HCl, salt water at various concentrations, white vinegar and gasoline (painted on). The latest test on a small patch seems kind of promising: 2% glyphosate with a spoonful of metsulfuron methyl, sprayed every week. But that method won't be suitable for the entire bank, too time consuming and too much chemical.
I even thought: "Ahh -- Agent Orange might do it", so I looked it up. Depressing reading. It took scientists thousands of trails over years to come up with that method of defoliation. And here I am do a test or two every year! Not much hope for me, but still…
New Approach
Anyway, I've had a new idea: a two-part approach. Breach the waxy coating first, and then hit it with glyphosate. So I've been soaking leaves in salt water, white vinegar, NaOH, and HCl.
Ques 1
What is the HCl doing to the leaves?
Ques 2
Is that gas coming off the HCl all the time (with or without leaves) hydrogen? If I leave HCl in the open, will it eventually turn into something else?
Ques 3
What is the NaOH doing to the leaves?
Ques 4
Since both HCl and NaOh are doing something, which is more likely to make the leaves more susceptible to glyphosate uptake?
Experience with killing English Ivy?
Finally, I've researched and been testing methods of chemically killing Ivy for years. I'm keen to hear of any method (other than mechanical) that you have personally used and proven to kill English Ivy. Please don't offer hearsay methods. I've heard them all. One method does work, though suitable only for vertical stems thicker than about 12mm – cut the stem, put gaffer tape around the cut to form a "tank", then add a thick layer of pure salt to the tank.
As a last resort in a year or two, after I've shown chemicals to be ineffective, I'll begin pulling the stuff out.
I live next to the Forth River in NW Tasmania. If it was free of weeds, the bank would be a lovely area, 5 metres below the parallel country road, 20 metres wide and about 800 metres long. But since settlement in the 1850s, introduced weeds have taken over -- blackberries so high I had to cut a tunnel through them to start the clearing process 10 years ago. Worse still, 15 years before that a neighbour planted English Ivy over the road to "beautify" the river bank.
What works on other pests
I've sorted out the blackberries (3 months to die with 1.5% glyphosate); Cape Weed (6 weeks, 1%), Passionfruit vine (8 weeks, 1%), Buffalo Grass (2 weeks, 1%) and so on, but glyphosate has little effect on English Ivy. It's thriving and spreading, now covering about 1/3 of the bank area (5000 sq m) and climbing 10 metres up the gum trees. Here's what Roundup has to say about Ivy.
Trials
Over the last three years I've tried spraying NaOH, HCl, salt water at various concentrations, white vinegar and gasoline (painted on). The latest test on a small patch seems kind of promising: 2% glyphosate with a spoonful of metsulfuron methyl, sprayed every week. But that method won't be suitable for the entire bank, too time consuming and too much chemical.
I even thought: "Ahh -- Agent Orange might do it", so I looked it up. Depressing reading. It took scientists thousands of trails over years to come up with that method of defoliation. And here I am do a test or two every year! Not much hope for me, but still…
New Approach
Anyway, I've had a new idea: a two-part approach. Breach the waxy coating first, and then hit it with glyphosate. So I've been soaking leaves in salt water, white vinegar, NaOH, and HCl.
- The salt water and the vinegar seem to have no effect after one day;
- the NaOH solution, clear to start with, is stripping colour from the leaves very slowly (no colour change for the first few hours);
- but the HCl took the shine off the leaves, and turned them yellow, in maybe 10 minutes. A day later, the HCL leaves are a very dark green/brown. So maybe the HCl will be the go for the first step of a two-part approach.
Ques 1
What is the HCl doing to the leaves?
Ques 2
Is that gas coming off the HCl all the time (with or without leaves) hydrogen? If I leave HCl in the open, will it eventually turn into something else?
Ques 3
What is the NaOH doing to the leaves?
Ques 4
Since both HCl and NaOh are doing something, which is more likely to make the leaves more susceptible to glyphosate uptake?
Experience with killing English Ivy?
Finally, I've researched and been testing methods of chemically killing Ivy for years. I'm keen to hear of any method (other than mechanical) that you have personally used and proven to kill English Ivy. Please don't offer hearsay methods. I've heard them all. One method does work, though suitable only for vertical stems thicker than about 12mm – cut the stem, put gaffer tape around the cut to form a "tank", then add a thick layer of pure salt to the tank.
As a last resort in a year or two, after I've shown chemicals to be ineffective, I'll begin pulling the stuff out.
