I have agreed to the Terms and Conditions

[Pengwuino]

"I have agreed to the Terms and Conditions..."

Peng here.

As I installed Adobe Flash update #15,203,203 and clicked the usual "blahb lah blah terms and crap, don't use Flash to create a nuclear weapon or biological warfare please or we'll sue you", I started wondering how often people ever actually read these things. So here's the poll of the night:

How often do you read the terms and conditions, offline and online, for software, forums, real world products and contracts?

DISCUSS!

Rawr.

 

[rootX]

Never. I breach contracts daily.

 

[Evo]

I read the fine print on web development software we were giving clients, it actually stated that use of the software could cause death. Didn't say why. I always had fun pointing that out to the people I was giving it to.

 

[Pengwuino]

1 vote in 30 minutes? PF, I am disappoint.

 

[Evo]

1 vote in 30 minutes? PF, I am disappoint.

Sorry, I forgot to vote.

 

[KingNothing]

I'm kind of confused as to why not reading it would mean I breached a contract? Certainly I can agree to a contract without reading it, but still not violate it?

From the iTunes EULA: "You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."

 

[Pengwuino]

I'm kind of confused as to why not reading it would mean I breached a contract? Certainly I can agree to a contract without reading it, but still not violate it?

From the iTunes EULA: "You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."

It was for funnies. I R PF HUMOR GENERATOR

 

[Lisa!]

1 vote in 30 minutes? PF, I am disappoint.

That says most of PFers never read terms and conditions!

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I voted for the first option, whatever it was.

 

[Chi Meson]

Does "just once in my lifetime, and then only about 1/10 of it" count as "occasionally"?

 

[Office_Shredder]

I'm kind of confused as to why not reading it would mean I breached a contract? Certainly I can agree to a contract without reading it, but still not violate it?

Do the terms and conditions require that you read the terms and conditions in order to use their product? I wouldn't have any idea since I never read them but it seems like a possibility

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I did when I first got a computer. Then I just started skimming. Then I realized that I'll be using the product I paid money fro no matter what the damn thing said and started ignoring them.

I think I annoyed the last people I rented from though when I actually took the time to read through the paper work that they asked me to read through before signing it.

 

[rhody]

It was for funnies. I R PF HUMOR GENERATOR

Having a little holiday cheer Pengy ? On a serious note, Adobe Flash is one of those apps that hackers target to get at your computer. For me, if it ain't broke and isn't causing a problemo, I don't install updates for Flash, period. I know there is supposed to be a trusted certificate and all that, but I have had weird things happen after installing Flash, so it is not just a terms and conditions thing with me, more like a trust thing and will this update bring my PC or laptop to its knees. Has anyone else had a similar experience ?

Rhody...

 

[D H]

From the iTunes EULA: "You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."

Well of course. The weaponizable version of iTunes is iTar restricted.

__________________________________________________

Those EULAs and computer industry warnings can be downright fiendish. At one point in Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett's novel Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch, Crowley the demon sends a computer warranty down Below to the department that draws up Immortal Soul agreements with a yellow sticky attached that said "Learn, guys".

See the footnote at the bottom of the page in this google books extract: http://books.google.com/books?id=FsN0mxNThYIC&pg=PA227&#v=onepage&q&f=false.

 

[D H]

 

[rhody]

Well of course. The (unintentional weaponized) version of iTunes is iTar restricted.

D H,

Sorry, that hit a nerve. iTunes has caused me so many problems with my iTouch, it might as well be weaponized. A sad commentary...

Rhody...

Edit: P.S. on second thought, iTunes should be ITAR unrestricted, our enemies should be subject to the same problems if not more of them that I have had, hehe...

 

[Monique]

I do, except when it's software from a big company. Then I'll trust that I have security in numbers When I enter some kind of online contest I always read the fine print. Just to make sure that I'm not accepting to do work for the prize I've never won a thing, but other people tell me they often win prizes..

 

[intwo]

I wouldn't know if I were breaching any contracts because I never read the terms and conditions..

 

[Pengwuino]

I do, except when it's software from a big company. Then I'll trust that I have security in numbers When I enter some kind of online contest I always read the fine print. Just to make sure that I'm not accepting to do work for the prize I've never won a thing, but other people tell me they often win prizes..

Oh yes, there certainly are things like that where I do read the fine print! I didn't think about that. Reminds me of when I was younger and my parents bought some raffle tickets from a church raffle. Apparently the raffle came and if I recall, another of my family members attended the actual raffle drawing, knew what my parent's raffle number was, and heard it called.

Of course, the fine print stated you had to be in attendance to win :)

 

[cmb]

You missed out the option I usually undertake - I make a copy of the T&C but don't read it. (Maybe a cursory scan to check I am not selling my soul.)

Thing is, the more small-print there is in T&Cs, the more they are making trouble for themselves because they always seem to generate ambiguities which you can use later on if you have troubles.

I think much of it is very wrong. One website in the UK, the National Lottery website, has T&C which are 36,000 words long. (I know because I have kept copies! :) ). But worse still - they often say 'we have changed our terms and conditions' once every few months or so, but don't summarise the changes.

I regard such behaviour as a flat-out unfair contract term. It is self-evident they don't actually want people to read their 36,000 word (and increasing!) T&C every month.

 

[cmb]

Incidentally, I'll add that I have also played the 'battle of the T&C's' with regular domestic bills and such. This is where one party sends their T&Cs, then the other sends theirs back. (In law, it is the last set of T&C that have effect, if both parties have proceeded to the business, so you have to be quick to keep sending yours back.)

So once I sign up to some new supplier or such, I may send them a postal letter with my own small print on the back of that letter. Big businesses receiving masses of post tend not to pick up on stuff like that! Most 'company-consumer' business is considered in law to be an 'offer contract', but there is nothing to stop you sending your own T&Cs back. I believe the responsibility is then on them to reject you as a customer, if they are unhappy with the terms you have sent.

 

[John Creighto]

Say, someone weaponezed itunes. Is apple going to sue them for it?

 

[jhae2.718]

I don't see why everyone is complaining about iTunes. It's doing a pretty good job of running my centrifuges.

 

[Pengwuino]

I don't see why everyone is complaining about iTunes. It's doing a pretty good job of running my centrifuges.

But what if you want to transfer the uranium from your centrifuge to a non-apple centrifuge?

Good luck.

 

[Pythagorean]

acceptacceptacceptclickclickclick

 

[rhody]

I don't see why everyone is complaining about iTunes. It's doing a pretty good job of running my centrifuges.

But what if you want to transfer the uranium from your centrifuge to a non-apple centrifuge?

Good luck.

You guys kill me. I am getting a Sony Walkman 16GB, simple... no iTunes, no missing songs, no turning the device into a brick (TWICE !). Not ever having to reinstall songs that shouldn't have been deleted in the first place, I ripped them from CD's, I own the files Apple, got it ?! I paid for them, so stop taking them off my iTouch ! There I feel better, well, at least just a little. I don't care if there are almost a million apps (most you have to buy) for iTouch, iPad, etc... you can't use iTunes to easily find what you want anyway.

Rhody...

 

[Pengwuino]

You guys kill me. I am getting a Sony Walkman 16GB, simple... no iTunes, no missing songs, no turning the device into a brick (TWICE !). Not ever having to reinstall songs that shouldn't have been deleted in the first place, I ripped them from CD's, I own the files Apple, got it ?! I paid for them, so stop taking them off my iTouch ! There I feel better, well, at least just a little. I don't care if there are almost a million apps (most you have to buy) for iTouch, iPad, etc... you can't use iTunes to easily find what you want anyway.

Rhody...

One thing I HATE about Apple is that even if you've never let an apple product into your house, your computers all get iTunes somehow.

Honestly, I think iTunes spreads to computers faster than the best viruses and worms. I mean, honestly, I NEVER get viruses, we have firewalls, antivirus software, etc.

Somehow I still get iTunes every so often.

 

[rhody]

One thing I HATE about Apple is that even if you've never let an apple product into your house, your computers all get iTunes somehow.

Honestly, I think iTunes spreads to computers faster than the best viruses and worms. I mean, honestly, I NEVER get viruses, we have firewalls, antivirus software, etc.

Somehow I still get iTunes every so often.

Ok, I wasn't about to bite, but if you don't have an iTouch, iPad, etc... how does it get downloaded and installed ? Inquiring minds on PF would like to know.

Rhody...

 

[Pengwuino]

Ok, I wasn't about to bite, but if you don't have an iTouch, iPad, etc... how does it get downloaded and installed ? Inquiring minds on PF would like to know.

Rhody...

It rides many popular (and less popular) program's installation files. Quicktime will install iTunes for you (and for a time, if I recall correctly, without giving you any choice in the matter). I believe Realplayer was doing it for a while as well. There have been other products that bundle it as well, many of which had nothing to do with music/videos. It's kind of like how yahoo will install its toolbar on your browser if you install various, totally unrelated programs. I recently downloaded some video player (I think) that gave me the option of installing yahoo toolbar. Freaken hate it.

 

[Evo]

It rides many popular (and less popular) program's installation files. Quicktime will install iTunes for you (and for a time, if I recall correctly, without giving you any choice in the matter). I believe Realplayer was doing it for a while as well. There have been other products that bundle it as well, many of which had nothing to do with music/videos. It's kind of like how yahoo will install its toolbar on your browser if you install various, totally unrelated programs. I recently downloaded some video player (I think) that gave me the option of installing yahoo toolbar. Freaken hate it.

There is always something that they try to sneak in when you download or update something. So I do pay attention and uncheck all of the boxes "accepting" the junk.

 

[rhody]

Which leads me to my next question, why in the world would anyone who unwittingly has iTunes on their PC/laptop then go out and buy an iPad ? Am I missing something here ? Is Apple's thinking, "Well just in case you do buy one of our totally proprietary products, iTunes is just a click away ! Isn't that magic and aren't you special for choosing us !" NOT... Untold misery and heartache is a mere few clicks away.

Rhody...

 

[Evo]

I have never owned or used an Apple product and I am happy. Evo Child has a stack of deceased ipods. Oh look, here is one, nice metalic blue little thing, someday it will be a relic so I will toss it back into the bottom of the junk drawer.

 

[rhody]

I have never owned or used an Apple product and I am happy. Evo Child has a stack of deceased ipods. Oh look, here is one, nice metalic blue little thing, someday it will be a relic so I will toss it back into the bottom of the junk drawer.

Rhody wife is getting an 2nd generation iPad 16 GB for Christmas ( I couldn't talk her out of it). I may as well give her my 100$ worth of iTunes gift cards that I never used as Christmas gifts (on principal alone). Of the smart geeky folk I work with, only one owns an iPad, but he hardly ever uses it so I am sure he hasn't had the same frustrating experience I have. Many others agree with my opinion of them and they stay away from their products like the plague.

Rhody...

 

[Pengwuino]

By the way, who the hell still uses ipods?

 

[rhody]

By the way, who the hell still uses ipods?

There are still a few around, wife has one and the little disk drivey thingee still works even though the glass on the screen is cracked. iPod and iTouch's are tough little buggers. Mine has smashed on the road bicycle riding (in it's plastic protective case which split and spit it down the pavement at 15 mph) with no damage except scratches. An iPod with a spinning disk drive probably would not have survived. The battery still charges and holds a charge after six years, and everything works on it just fine. If it weren't for stupid proprietary iTunes I would probably buy another Apple product.

Rhody...