If [itex]x,y\in\mathbb{R}^n[/itex] are 2 vectors then is the following

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In summary, the conversation discusses the correct properties of a norm for vectors and continuous functions, and the need to prove these properties using the continuous function property from Analysis. It also mentions the use of integrals for proving these properties and the need to provide a reference to a known theorem or include a proof if necessary. Finally, there is a question about how to include symbols in one's signature file.
  • #1
Ted123
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If [itex]x,y\in\mathbb{R}^n[/itex] are 2 vectors then is the following correct:

[itex]\| x-y \| = 0 \iff x-y=0[/itex] ?

If [itex]f,g \in C [a,b][/itex] are 2 continuous functions on the closed interval [itex][a,b][/itex] then with [itex]\displaystyle \| f-g \| = \left( \int^b_a (f-g)^2 \right)^{1/2}[/itex] is the following correct: [tex]\| f-g \| \geq 0\; ;[/tex] [tex]\| f-g \| = 0 \iff f-g=0\; ?[/tex] (I think this follows from the fact that if a continuous function [itex]h=f-g[/itex] is non-negative and integrates to 0 over an integral [itex][a,b][/itex] (with [itex]a<b[/itex]) then h is the zero function.)
 
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  • #2


Ted123 said:
If [itex]x,y\in\mathbb{R}^n[/itex] are 2 vectors then is the following correct:

[itex]\| x-y \| = 0 \iff x-y=0[/itex] ?
You haven't indicated what norm [itex]\|\cdot\|[/itex] represents. But if it is a norm, that property is part of its definition. Perhaps you are to prove it for some proposed norm?
If [itex]f,g \in C [a,b][/itex] are 2 continuous functions on the closed interval [itex][a,b][/itex] then with [itex]\displaystyle \| f-g \| = \left( \int^b_a (f-g)^2 \right)^{1/2}[/itex] is the following correct: [tex]\| f-g \| \geq 0\; ;[/tex] [tex]\| f-g \| = 0 \iff f-g=0\; ?[/tex] (I think this follows from the fact that if a continuous function [itex]h=f-g[/itex] is non-negative and integrates to 0 over an integral [itex][a,b][/itex] (with [itex]a<b[/itex]) then h is the zero function.)

Again, those are correct properties of a norm, and your formula is in fact a norm. And your outline of how to prove it is correct. Is your problem to actually do the proof or what?
 
  • #3


No it's not a question as such, just trying to prove that the Euclidean metric and [itex]L^2[/itex]-metric are indeed metrics (i.e. satisfy the 3 properties).

With the continuous function one, it says to prove [itex]\| f-g \| = 0 \iff f=g[/itex] you need to be careful and can't just state that [itex]\| f-g \| =0 \iff f-g=0[/itex] like with vectors (i.e. you need to use the continuous function property from Analysis)...
 
  • #4


LCKurtz said:
You haven't indicated what norm [itex]\|\cdot\|[/itex] represents. But if it is a norm, that property is part of its definition. Perhaps you are to prove it for some proposed norm?


Again, those are correct properties of a norm, and your formula is in fact a norm. And your outline of how to prove it is correct. Is your problem to actually do the proof or what?

Ted123 said:
No it's not a question as such, just trying to prove that the Euclidean metric and [itex]L^2[/itex]-metric are indeed metrics (i.e. satisfy the 3 properties).

With the continuous function one, it says to prove [itex]\| f-g \| = 0 \iff f=g[/itex] you need to be careful and can't just state that [itex]\| f-g \| =0 \iff f-g=0[/itex] like with vectors...

So what do you want? Are you stuck on the proofs?
 
  • #5


LCKurtz said:
So what do you want? Are you stuck on the proofs?

No I'm OK but why can't you state for the 2nd one that [itex]\| f-g \| = 0 \iff f-g = 0[/itex] ?
 
  • #6


Ted123 said:
No I'm OK but why can't you state for the 2nd one that [itex]\| f-g \| = 0 \iff f-g = 0[/itex] ?

Because it relies on the theorem about integrals of continuous functions to which you refer. You are going to use that theorem either by referencing it as a known theorem or proving it. If that theorem is already discussed and "well known" in your class, you might claim that the result is "obvious". Otherwise you might need to give a reference to it from something you learned earlier or include a proof.
 
  • #7


Ted123 said:
No I'm OK but why can't you state for the 2nd one that [itex]\| f-g \| = 0 \iff f-g = 0[/itex] ?

Find the integrals of f(x)=x on [0,1], and g(x)=x on [0,1]\{1/2}, and g(1/2)=10, and see what you get. Try then f(x)=x , and g(x)=x on [0,1]\{1/2,1/3} , and g(1/2)=g(1/3)=9.

LCKurtz: Would you please suggest on how to include the symbols in the bottom of your post in one's signature file?
 
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  • #8


Bacle2 said:
Find the integrals of f(x)=x on [0,1], and g(x)=x on [0,1]\{1/2}, and g(1/2)=10, and see what you get. Try then f(x)=x , and g(x)=x on [0,1]\{1/2,1/3} , and g(1/2)=g(1/3)=9.

How is that relevant? His space is C[a,b].
LCKurtz: Would you please suggest on how to include the symbols in the bottom of your post in one's signature file?

Click on My PF at the top left of your screen and select to Edit Signature.
 
  • #9


Yes, sorry, I missed the fact that we were working on C[a,b]. Thanks for the reply on the signature.
 

FAQ: If [itex]x,y\in\mathbb{R}^n[/itex] are 2 vectors then is the following

What is the dot product of two vectors?

The dot product of two vectors [itex]\vec{a}[/itex] and [itex]\vec{b}[/itex] in [itex]\mathbb{R}^n[/itex] is defined as [itex]\vec{a}\cdot\vec{b}=a_1b_1+a_2b_2+...+a_nb_n[/itex]. It is a scalar value that represents the magnitude of the projection of one vector onto the other.

How do you calculate the magnitude of a vector?

The magnitude or length of a vector [itex]\vec{v}[/itex] in [itex]\mathbb{R}^n[/itex] is given by the formula [itex]|\vec{v}|=\sqrt{v_1^2+v_2^2+...+v_n^2}[/itex]. This can also be interpreted as the distance from the origin to the tip of the vector.

What is the cross product of two vectors?

The cross product of two vectors [itex]\vec{a}[/itex] and [itex]\vec{b}[/itex] in [itex]\mathbb{R}^n[/itex] is defined as [itex]\vec{a}\times\vec{b}=(a_2b_3-a_3b_2,a_3b_1-a_1b_3,a_1b_2-a_2b_1)[/itex]. It results in a vector that is perpendicular to both [itex]\vec{a}[/itex] and [itex]\vec{b}[/itex].

How do you determine if two vectors are orthogonal?

Two vectors [itex]\vec{a}[/itex] and [itex]\vec{b}[/itex] in [itex]\mathbb{R}^n[/itex] are considered orthogonal if their dot product is equal to zero, [itex]\vec{a}\cdot\vec{b}=0[/itex]. This means that the angle between the two vectors is 90 degrees.

Can the cross product of two vectors be used to find the area of a parallelogram?

Yes, the magnitude of the cross product of two vectors [itex]\vec{a}[/itex] and [itex]\vec{b}[/itex] in [itex]\mathbb{R}^n[/itex] is equal to the area of the parallelogram formed by those two vectors. This is because the cross product gives the magnitude of the projection of one vector onto the other, which forms one side of the parallelogram.

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