If you have any respect for me, don't read this thread.

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In summary: It seems that these words have developed their own unique spellings and meanings that are not related to "oxen." How about "tween" (as in "between")?"Tween" is actually a shortened form of "between." It's not related to "oxen" either. In summary, the conversation starts with HRW asking what the other person has been up to, mentioning celebrating the Bucs winning the NFC South. They discuss some interesting linguistic facts, such as the origin of the word "hussy" and the connection between certain words like "long" and "length." HRW then talks about
  • #36
EnumaElish said:
Are you brushing me off?
http://www.devotedfansnetwork.com/forums/images/smilies/groan.gif

I need a cup of coffee. There was a time delay of 5-6 seconds before I got that joke.
 
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  • #37
I didn't know we're supposed to kill this thread!
 
  • #38
I've been trying to make it clear. (MIH, too.)

Although, I am still waiting to hear from HRW on the etymology of "olden."

(Might thou equally make lucid the word "redden," good lady?)
 
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  • #39
You should of could If you don't have any respect for me don't read this therd
 
  • #40
Math Is Hard said:
hmmm.. thread kill?
Dream on, babe. :-p You only got your hopes up because our phone lines were down the last two days.
EnumaElish said:
Although, I am still waiting to hear from HRW on the etymology of "olden."
(Might thou equally make lucid the word "redden," good lady?)
Sorry, I don't happen to know the earliest known recorded use of any word. I couldn't even tell you how likely my guesses would be -- I'm not an etymologist or historical linguist. I find historical linguistics interesting*, but trying to trace the history of individual English words is lots of work and probably interests me as much as the history of each pebble in my backyard interests your typical geologist, which I'm guessing isn't much since I've had these damn pebbles on eBay all week and no one's even bidding! :frown: Anywho, if you really want to know, lots of dictionaries include affixes (suffixes, prefixes, infixes, circumfixes, etc.). www.m-w.com/[/url] is my personal favorite online dictionary. To search many at once, [url]http://www.onelook.com/[/URL] is great.
Since [i]redden[/i] is a verb meaning roughly [i]to make or become (more) red[/i] and [i]red[/i] is an adjective, tracking down the records of the [i]-en[/i] suffix that attaches to adjectives to form verbs meaning roughly [i]to make or become (more) [adjective][/i] (which also appears in [i]blacken, darken, lighten, widen, shorten, etc.[/i]) might be a good place to start.

*mainly because of things like this:
[quote]One real triumph of this method of reconstruction was the Laryngeal
Hypothesis: it was known that there were some troublesome places in
Indo-European where the sound changes seemed not to be behaving in
their usual regular way; things were happening to vowels and
sometimes consonants that couldn't be easily explained based on what
we saw in the attested languages. Ferdinand de Saussure in the late
19th century said that there had to be a set of three segments in the
proto-language that had not survived in any of the daughter languages
-- he was fairly conservative about claiming what they must have
been, but he called them laryngeals and pointed out the precise
locations where they must have occurred. Many years later, when a
bunch of texts in Turkey were finally decoded and we knew we were
looking at the ancient Anatolian language Hittite, the oldest
attested Indo-European language -- voila: there were the laryngeals,
exactly where Saussure had predicted they must be just on the basis
of careful reconstruction.
- [PLAIN]http://www.utexas.edu/depts/classics/documents/PIE.html [/quote]Cool, huh? :cool:
 
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  • #41
Ah! There you are! What happened to your phone lines?

BTW, HRW, if you are replying to this thread then you are obviously reading it. Are we to infer from this, and from the thread title, that you have no self-respect?
 
  • #42
Math Is Hard said:
Ah! There you are! What happened to your phone lines?
The phone guys had problems with their equipment. They said it's normal. :confused:
BTW, HRW, if you are replying to this thread then you are obviously reading it. Are we to infer from this, and from the thread title, that you have no self-respect?
Sure, or from the fact that I'm sitting at home on PF on a Friday night.
 
  • #43
honestrosewater said:
The phone guys had problems with their equipment. They said it's normal. :confused:
heh. Men with equipment problems? So what did you tell them, "It's OK, it happens to every guy once in awhile"? Sounds like they were taking it very well!

Sure, or from the fact that I'm sitting at home on PF on a Friday night.
You should go out and play. Have some wild and naughty fun. If you're going to disrespect yourself, at least do something to earn it first. :biggrin: :devil:

Hope your weekend picks up!:smile:
 
  • #44
Math Is Hard said:
heh. Men with equipment problems? So what did you tell them, "It's OK, it happens to every guy once in awhile"? Sounds like they were taking it very well!
I told them what I always tell men when that happens: I want my money back.
You should go out and play. Have some wild and naughty fun. If you're going to disrespect yourself, at least do something to earn it first. :biggrin: :devil:

Hope your weekend picks up!:smile:
Thanks. I don't know what I meant by that anyway or why I even want to go out. I don't know where I'd go or who I'd do. Er, what I'd do. Whatever. Anywho, I decided to stay in and get some reading and such done. Oh, and get drunk and wonder what is wrong with me. I think it's evolution. It's made our bodies not listen to reason when there are hot guys around. Or one hot guy even. Stupid evolution. I'll show it who's boss. *drinks more poison* Hm, maybe I should get a webcam. Doh. Stupid evolution.
 
  • #45
Hot guys? WHERE??

Oh, you're not serious. :frown:

Hand me some poison.
 
  • #46
Evo said:
Hot guys? WHERE??
Oh, you're not serious. :frown:
Hand me some poison.
No, there's one, but I don't like him.

*hands Evo a black martini*

I think I'll have a Screaming Orgasm.

No, scratch that. A Screaming Multiple Orgasm On The Beach.

Meh, too much work. Just Scotch.
 
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  • #47
honestrosewater said:
No, there's one, but I don't like him.
The boo to him then.

*hands Evo a black martini*
Ooooh, I love black martinis. :approve:

I think I'll have a Screaming Orgasm.

No, scratch that. A Screaming Multiple Orgasm On The Beach.

Meh, too much work. Just Scotch.
Oh I was going to recommend a drink but then I'd lose my job...nevermind. :redface:

Co-worker: So what did you guys do after work last night?

us: We went out and had bl** **obs. They were good but all the ***** ended up on my **** and it was hard to hold something that large in my ***** and ******* with my arms held behind my ****. :frown:
 
  • #48
Evo said:
Oh I was going to recommend a drink but then I'd lose my job...nevermind. :redface:

Co-worker: So what did you guys do after work last night?
us: We went out and had bl** **obs. They were good but all the ***** ended up on my **** and it was hard to hold something that large in my ***** and ******* with my arms held behind my ****. :frown:
Don't worry. I'm sharp. :wink: I figured it out. Next time I go out, I'll be sure to get one of those. Sounds like fun. What do you think about having 'just fun'? Know what I mean?
 
  • #49
honestrosewater said:
Don't worry. I'm sharp. :wink: I figured it out. Next time I go out, I'll be sure to get one of those. Sounds like fun.
[quote What do you think about having 'just fun'? Know what I mean?
Not sure, but you should have fun while you are young! :approve:
 
  • #50
Evo said:
Not sure, but you should have fun while you are young! :approve:
Hm, is 23 young? Perhaps you're young until you stop having fun. :lightbulb: I guess figuring out what I want is turning out to be more difficult than I expected and I was just looking to vent a little and get some input from other people. Anywho, I don't want the kind of fun I was thinking of anyway. I want the good kind of fun. :approve:
 
  • #51
honestrosewater said:
Dream on, babe. :-p You only got your hopes up because our phone lines were down the last two days.
Nice problem! Phone: the most annoying invention of human!:rolleyes:


Hm, is 23 young? Perhaps you're young until you stop having fun. :lightbulb: I guess figuring out what I want is turning out to be more difficult than I expected and I was just looking to vent a little and get some input from other people. Anywho, I don't want the kind of fun I was thinking of anyway. I want the good kind of fun.

The best kind of fun: sleeping and having sweet dreams!:-p (Ok it's what I need now but I have to wait a bit more.:zzz: So I admit that it's the best thing only when you're sleepy not all the time!)
 
  • #52
honestrosewater said:
I thought I was your hire goon.
Oh, no, I'm a hired goon, that's right... Loser.

I like using edits to make people look nonsensical.

So where's my Twix?
 
  • #53
SpaceTiger said:
I like using edits to make people look nonsensical.
You like doing what with cherry jello, a top hat, and two penguins?
So where's my Twix?
Here, take it. I'm too sexy for your Twix. Here, I'm too sexy for my shirt too.

GO BUCS!11 Woo!
 
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  • #54
honestrosewater said:
Cool, huh? :cool:
Very cool; this proved to me that http://www.colorado.edu/English/ENGL2012Klages/saussure.html was the father of semiotics for a reason. It also tells me that an English major isn't necessarily the useless topic as it's made out to be.
 
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  • #55
EnumaElish said:
Very cool; this proved to me that http://www.colorado.edu/English/ENGL2012Klages/saussure.html was the father of semiotics for a reason. It also tells me that an English major isn't necessarily the useless topic as it's made out to be.
Why an English major? Do they study semiotics? Perhaps in connection with literature and pop culture?

If it interests you, the laryngeal hypothesis was part of his work in linguistics using the comparative method. I think the basic idea is that language (sound, in particular) changes in regular ways over time, so if you suspect that a group of languages have a common ancestor, you use the rules of language change to try to reconstruct this ancestor. If you can't reconstruct an ancestor, the languages aren't related (or your rules are wrong).

What interests me most is not language families or change per se so much as what gives rise to the rules of language change and other things related to the history of language. I read a short article about race by Dawkins the other week that got me thinking about the connections between language and mating. I wonder how often people who don't share a language end up having children (who usually inherit their parents' language(s)). It's the strongest nongeographic barrier I can think of.

If you like Saussure, you might want to check out Wilhelm von Humboldt's work on language. He was another who had some of the first 'modern' ideas in linguistics.
 
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  • #56
honestrosewater said:
Why an English major? Do they study semiotics?
Hmmm, I thought they might. If they don't, then I have to agree that it is useless as a major. :biggrin:
What interests me most is not language families or change per se so much as what gives rise to the rules of language change and other things related to the history of language. I read a short article about race by Dawkins the other week that got me thinking about the connections between language and mating. I wonder how often people who don't share a language end up having children (who usually inherit their parents' language(s)). It's the strongest nongeographic barrier I can think of.
I see your point. Isn't that true for almost all human interaction? For example, business transactions? In The Name of the Rose, Eco has some of his characters speak in a mixed European language. ("Half English, half French, and half Latin" may be how Yogi Berra would have put it.) Do you find this realistic? Do you think it is mostly due to cross-lingual marriages among the European peoples during the middle ages?
If you like Saussure, you might want to check out Wilhelm von Humboldt's work on language. He was another who had some of the first 'modern' ideas in linguistics.
I will check out WvH.

So, are you a linguist, or a logicist?
 
  • #57
EnumaElish said:
I see your point. Isn't that true for almost all human interaction? For example, business transactions?
Isn't what true? That most direct interaction is between people who share a language?
In The Name of the Rose, Eco has some of his characters speak in a mixed European language. ("Half English, half French, and half Latin" may be how Yogi Berra would have put it.) Do you find this realistic?
In an Italian monastery in the early 14th century? Well, Italian monks speaking Latin wouldn't surprise me. :-p But I just don't know enough to say. Middle English, which was influenced heavily by Anglo-Norman, an Old French dialect, was spoken in England at that time, and by some counts, Modern English's lexicon might also be described as half (Old) English, half French, and half Latin. Maybe Middle or Modern English was the inspiration.
Do you think it is mostly due to cross-lingual marriages among the European peoples during the middle ages?
No idea.
So, are you a linguist, or a logicist?
I'm interested in and have studied a little of both. They overlap a lot. If I ever go to school, I'll study linguistics; I'm especially interested in mathematical and computational linguistics, language acqusition, the syntax-semantics interface, and um, how writers make artistic choices or what makes an utterance beautiful (pleasing to the senses and the mind) -- I guess you could call it a kind of scientific study of poetry, so the relevant parts of phonetics, physiology, music theory, and who knows what else. I want to write a program that can write the next Hamlet ...or die trying. Er, I would die trying, not the program. I'd like to figure out a better way to state that sentence too... :redface:
 
  • #58
Isn't what true?
When you posted "It's the strongest nongeographic barrier I can think of," I thought you were making a reference to how languages leap over geographic barriers through intermarriage, so I surmised that this must be true of other types of human interaction, like commerce. But I may be mistaken in my interpretation.
If I ever go to school, I'll study linguistics
What, you didn't go to school and yet you are so knowledgeable in linguistics and logic?! That's an admirable feat.
 
  • #59
EnumaElish said:
When you posted "It's the strongest nongeographic barrier I can think of," I thought you were making a reference to how languages leap over geographic barriers through intermarriage, so I surmised that this must be true of other types of human interaction, like commerce. But I may be mistaken in my interpretation.
Oh. I meant that language can segment and isolate populations, as can geographic barriers like mountain ranges and bodies of water. I was just thinking about how well a person's family tree might match their native language's family tree. The places that leap first to mind where I might expect the human and language trees to differ are where they include humans who weren't treated as or allowed to act as humans, for example, being taken from their homes and traded as slaves. It's not really something I'm pursuing; just some recreational ruminating. :biggrin:
What, you didn't go to school and yet you are so knowledgeable in linguistics and logic?! That's an admirable feat.
Thanks, that's nice of you. :smile: I still have plenty to learn.

So are you interested in semiotics?

Oh, by the way, I read this today in the book that started this thread, Otto Jespersen's The Philosphy of Grammar:
... Now all this can be shown to have a curious connection with the extension of a great many verbs by means of -en which took place from about 1400 and gave rise not only to the forms happen, listen, frighten, but also to verbs like broaden, blacken, moisten, which now are apprehended as formed from adjectives, while originally they were simply phonetic expansions of existing verbs that had the same form as the adjectives.
 
  • #60
honestrosewater said:
So are you interested in semiotics?
I took some electives in college that covered the structuralist approach and, by implication, semiotics. I think I took an anthropology class and one of the main characters was Claude Lévi-Strauss who was a structuralist and developed structural anthropology. As far as I can remember, he analyzed human culture (or human interaction) essentially the way semiotics analyzed a language. All of which tells me that you're not far off to relate languages and cultures.

Oh, by the way, I read this today in the book that started this thread, Otto Jespersen's The Philosphy of Grammar:
Thanks for mentioning it here.
 
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