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the number 42
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If we truly knew nothing -tabula rasa style - would we be happy?
I would disagree. It is human nature to search for truth. If we do not search for truth, we are going against our human nature, and thus, face consquences of not being happy.russ_watters said:I think there really are people who are happy knowing nothing and there may even be a correlation between happiness and knowledge - the more you know, the more you have to worry about.
Firstly, those people are only lying to themselves.selfAdjoint said:dekoi, I fear you are judging others by yourself. I know lots of people who have no interest in learning anything beyond gossip and sports results. If we were such a questing species as you imagine, how could aristocracy and tyranny ever have become established?
abitofnothingleft said:how could anyone be happy knowing nothing?i mean, yes you could say that they could be carefree etc but in reality, wouldn't you want to know the truth?
dekoi said:I would disagree. It is human nature to search for truth. If we do not search for truth, we are going against our human nature, and thus, face consquences of not being happy.
Tom McCurdy said:A lot of people are content having fun... drinking smoking and trying to have sex.
What makes you think that the more you know, the more miserable you become? Perhaps that is true for some degree of high knowledge, but when one achieves true, elite knowledge, they are no longer miserable -- because now, they know about human virtue and nature.franznietzsche said:No dekoi,those people are genuinely happy in there ignorance.
The lower the IQ, the lower the desire to learn. The higher IQ the more you want to learn. The more you learn, the more miserable you are.
Just look at all the miserable and insane geniuses out there:
Van Gogh
Nietzsche
Poe
Plath
Camus
Kafka
Nash
the list goes on...
Tom McCurdy said:if you didn't know anything you wouldn't know about wanting to know the truth... you would be ignortant that there was a truth out there to know... Ignorance would be bliss... oh to believe in religon
As IQ rises so does the percentage of the population that is athiest
Smarter people question more
Perhaps in that sense, ignorance is "bliss". But we have to be careful of what we mean by "bliss". We of course can not give bliss equality with happiness.Tom McCurdy said:I think you are looking at a community of special cases... our technology and knowledge is progressed by special cases. The majority of people don't care about the world, and in their ignorance comes the bliss of never knowing the worlds troubles.
Exactly. But these happy people are usually those who have no access to such knowledge (as opposed to us).juju said:Hi,
Some of the most happiest people are those who are simple people.
They may not know, but they do understand.
juju
loseyourname said:I don't think there is any causative correlation between happiness and knowledge. You can be happy and ignorant, happy and informed, miserable and ignorant, miserable and informed. They have little bearing on one another.
No. AiA answers the above in his post:loseyourname said:I don't think there is any causative correlation between happiness and knowledge. You can be happy and ignorant, happy and informed, miserable and ignorant, miserable and informed. They have little bearing on one another.
He rightfully explains that knowledge (or rather, wisdom) is a part of happiness.AiA said:When we look at what happiness is, we will conclude it is the trandsendentals, (beauty (metaphysical beauty) justice, unity, goodness,and truth) Truth is knowledge and logic, hence a factor in happiness, so knowledge does bring happiness if it is true knowledge. (no person can be sad by learning. If they are they are not logical.)
AiA said:When we look at what happiness is, we will conclude it is the trandsendentals, (beauty (metaphysical beauty) justice, unity, goodness,and truth) Truth is knowledge and logic, hence a factor in happiness, so knowledge does bring happiness if it is true knowledge. (no person can be sad by learning. If they are they are not logical.)
-->When we look at what happiness is, we will conclude it is the trandsendentals, (beauty (metaphysical beauty) justice, unity, goodness,and truth) Truth is knowledge and logic, hence a factor in happiness, so knowledge does bring happiness if it is true knowledge. (no person can be sad by learning. If they are they are not logical.)
We can determine what happiness is by analyzing human behavior during their existence. No human is happy without justice; yet justice is also goodness, and truth. therefore, we deductively state that humans are not happy without justice, goodness, or truth. Beauty is a natural inclination of human beings; no one wants an ugly looking car, nor an ape for a spouse.the number 42 said:Will we make this conclusion, indeed? Sounds like you are just making a lot of assumptions. Care to provide any grounds for these?
dekoi said:No human is happy without justice
dekoi said:...yet justice is also goodness, and truth.
dekoi said:Logic is a part of truth. We can see that without needing any proof.
AiA said:... we know that if something isn't bad it must then be...(I'll give you all a second to figure it out.) GOOD. Is justice a lie, (Come on, you can figure it out.) No, so it must be truthful.
AiA said:Is justice bad? If you think so you need to be slapped
1.) Of course you only need to find one instance to prove this wrong. But isn't that common in everything -- science in particular? Either way, justice is not subjective, since human nature is objective. Thus, to say justice is subjective (part of human nature) is to contradict human nature. On what grounds can you prove yourself right by saying justice (or human nature for that matter) is subjective? Your hitler example isn't very sound.the number 42 said:I only need to find one instance to prove this generalisation wrong. Also justice is subjective, don't you think. I reckon Hitler thought he was just.
:zzz: On what grounds do you base this?
Okay, I'm not going to waste words on this one.
1.) Yes. Taking the example of 'good' and 'bad'. There is no such thing as "sort of good" or "sort of bad". The law of non-contradiction causes us to state that it is either good or bad, good or evil. There is no such thing as "partial injustice", it is only injustice.the number 42 said::zzz: Okay, this really is getting old now. Are you saying there is either justice/injustice truth/lie? Do you see in black and white as well as think that way?
Right. This coming from Mr Justice. What's the penalty for disagreeing with you twice - the firing squad?
dekoi said:1.) Yes. Taking the example of 'good' and 'bad'. There is no such thing as "sort of good" or "sort of bad". The law of non-contradiction causes us to state that it is either good or bad, good or evil. There is no such thing as "partial injustice", it is only injustice.
2.) "Is justice bad?"
I already replied to this in my above post.
dekoi said:No human is happy without justice
the number 42 said:I only need to find one instance to prove this generalisation wrong. Also justice is subjective, don't you think. I reckon Hitler thought he was just.
dekoi said:1.) Of course you only need to find one instance to prove this wrong. But isn't that common in everything -- science in particular? Either way, justice is not subjective, since human nature is objective. Thus, to say justice is subjective (part of human nature) is to contradict human nature.
Are you equating these three concepts? I happen to agree that they are similar, but that doesn't prove anything. For one thing, I think coffee is good, but that doesn't mean coffee and goodness are equivalent concepts. Can you explain your reasoning in more detail?dekoi said:Would you say it is bad to be just? A bit of a contradiction there. Therefore, we say justice is goodness. Yet to be good is to be truthful, and to be just is as well to be truthful to humans; thus, we say, "yet justice is also goodness, and truth."
I apologize. It says: not (P and not P). "It is not true that a proposition and its negation are both true (at the same time)."dekoi said:honestrosewater: I am not familiar enuogh with your LNC statement to argue with you on that.
You asked whether my theory is "unfalsifiable". My theory relies on human nature. Human nature, contrary to other subjects such as science, is a constant. It does not change. Thus it is not falsifiable, since to try to challenge what justice is, is to challenge what human nature is.
I like juju's defintion. I don't believe life is just, but I am still happy. How do you explain my belief away?
I am not equating the concepts. I am simply creating an assertion, with a subject and predicate. I am stating that Since justice is good for humanity, and what is good for humanity is true goodness, then justice is goodness. Again, I'm not equating (although it sure seems like it), i am relating.honestrosewater said:Are you equating these three concepts? I happen to agree that they are similar, but that doesn't prove anything. For one thing, I think coffee is good, but that doesn't mean coffee and goodness are equivalent concepts. Can you explain your reasoning in more detail?
Sure; but would you not agree that you would be happier if the world had perfect justice?I don't believe life is just, but I am still happy. How do you explain my belief away?
dekoi said:I am not equating the concepts. I am simply creating an assertion, with a subject and predicate. I am stating that Since justice is good for humanity, and what is good for humanity is true goodness, then justice is goodness. Again, I'm not equating (although it sure seems like it), i am relating.