IIT is regarded as what kind of institute in the World

[heman]

IIT is regarded as what kind of institute in the World..i want to get an impression of what kind of image does it possess?

 

[jai6638]

if ur talkin about Indian Institute of Technology , its a great university and it's education is probably at par with MIT!

I only have a few american friends who have heard of it though...

 

[Eratosthenes]

I have never heard of it. I live in the US and I am only familiar with american schools, university of waterloo, university of cambridge, and university of queensland cause my friend works there, but other than that I am not familiar with any other universities. So maybe the reason I am not familiar with it is because I am not familiar with many other universities in general.

 

[juvenal]

Being an American - I too have never heard of IIT.

 

[Eratosthenes]

I have some friends from India who I go to school with. According to them education in India is very hard. Now I'm not sure if
-they are exagerrating
-they mean hard as in the teachers are not good,
-they mean hard because the classes move at brisk pace and are very advanced

They tend to exaggerate a lot but who knows hehe. I think the main thing is to get good teachers. I have had bad teachers and it really ruins the semester.

 

[jai6638]

I have some friends from India who I go to school with. According to them education in India is very hard. Now I'm not sure if
-they are exagerrating
-they mean hard as in the teachers are not good,
-they mean hard because the classes move at brisk pace and are very advanced

They tend to exaggerate a lot but who knows hehe. I think the main thing is to get good teachers. I have had bad teachers and it really ruins the semester.

i don't think they're exagerrating... it really is hard...

 

[poolwin2001]

Well you don't have much of a choice of what subjects you take,
the course syllabii are usually as flexible as an iron rod at low temperatures.

 

[heman]

Somewhere on the line ..i heard that its tough to make into IIT than Mit...is that statement mean anything...

 

[ambuj123]

I have been preparing for iitjee 2005 for past 2 years working 10-12 hours daily but still i cannot confidently say i can crack it that's how hard it is.
Once a american network(I think cbs) did program that if you combine several of top universities that how good iit is.
the selection is few thousand from 2 hundred thousand.
only thing it suffers if lack of funds for resarch from government it''s the only difference betwwen iit and othe rtop universities of world.

 

[poolwin2001]

The academic program at IIT is excellant but % of publishing faculty is almost 0.

 

[heman]

That may be the problem For India..i think it lacks funds to attract nice Proffs. or why is this so...i know there are many ppls from India who achieved a lot..But they don't prefer to do research in India...or may be India can't afford them...India is facing enormous Brain Drain Problem...

 

[poolwin2001]

No. Serious reasearch is being done at ISI,TIFR,HRI,PRL,etc.But in IIT they stick to just teaching or writting books.Thats kind of sad.

 

[heman]

then what can be done about it my Friend so that it can be brought at par with other universities...

 

[poolwin2001]

Nothing.IIT shoots out brilliant engineers.They go abroad earn lot of money.we need them too.

 

[Astronuc]

then what can be done about it my Friend so that it can be brought at par with other universities...

Heman, I recommend that you and your colleagues become brilliant scientists or engineers and then return to IIT to teach and do research, even if you work outside India for some years.

At first I thought IIT was Illinois Instititute of Technology (www.iit.edu), which is another good technical school.

Which one of the seven institutes were you thinking about?

IIT Dehli

http://www.iitm.ac.in/

IIT Kharagpur

IIT Kanpur

IIT Bombay, or Mumbai

http://www.rurkiu.ernet.in/

IIT Guwahati

There are many different programs at each institute, and one place may have particular strengths. It might be worthwhile contacting some alumni, or at least find out who is publishing in the technical journals in the field of interest.

 

[heman]

Heman, I recommend that you and your colleagues become brilliant scientists or engineers and then return to IIT to teach and do research, even if you work outside India for some years.

At first I thought IIT was Illinois Instititute of Technology (www.iit.edu), which is another good technical school.

Which one of the seven institutes were you thinking about?

IIT Dehli

IIT Madras

IIT Kharagpur

IIT Kanpur

IIT Bombay, or Mumbai

http://www.rurkiu.ernet.in/

IIT Guwahati

There are many different programs at each institute, and one place may have particular strengths. It might be worthwhile contacting some alumni, or at least find out who is publishing in the technical journals in the field of interest.

Thats Nice to SEE Astronuc...Well i am in IIT Kanpur ...i have seen that IIT has given birth to many brilliant technicians...like at the moment President of Bell Labs. is IIT Bombay Alumni,,In Every Famous US University like MIT,Princeton there are many IIT Alumni who are proffesors there...

 

[poolwin2001]

Astro, Eventhough there are 7 IITs they are like branches of a single university.
Selection to all IITs is through a Joint Exam.
So in India,when we say IIT it means all 7 as a whole.

 

[Astronuc]

I thought I would bring this up to date rather than start a new thread.

The Indian Institutes of Technology (Hindi: भारतीय प्रौद्योगिकी संस्थान), or IITs, are a group of seven autonomous engineering and technology-oriented institutes of higher education established and declared as Institutes of National Importance by the Government of India. These institutes were created to train scientists and engineers, with the aim of developing a skilled workforce to underpin India's economic and social development after independence in 1947. The students and alumni of IITs are colloquially referred to as IITians.

The seven IITs are located at Kharagpur, Mumbai, Chennai, Kanpur, Delhi, Guwahati, and Roorkee, established in that chronological order. Some of these IITs were established with financial assistance and technical expertise from the UNESCO, Germany, United States, and the Soviet Union. Each IIT is an autonomous university, linked to the others through a common IIT Council, which oversees their administration. They have a common admission process, using the Joint Entrance Examination (popularly known as IIT-JEE) to select around 4,000 candidates a year. About 15,500 undergraduate and 12,000 graduate students study in the seven IITs, in addition to research scholars. IITians have achieved success in a variety of professions, resulting in the establishment of the widely recognised IIT Brand.[1] The autonomy of IITs has helped them to create specialised degrees in technology at undergraduate level, and consequently to award the Bachelor of Technology (B.Tech.) degree, as opposed to the Bachelor of Engineering (BE) degree awarded by most other Indian universities. The success of the IITs has led to the creation of similar institutes in other fields, such as the National Institutes of Technology, the Indian Institutes of Management and the Indian Institute of Information Technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institutes_of_Technology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IIT-JEE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graduate_Aptitude_Test_in_Engineering

Interesting.

 

[heman]

I have some friends from India who I go to school with. According to them education in India is very hard. Now I'm not sure if
-they are exagerrating
-they mean hard as in the teachers are not good,
-they mean hard because the classes move at brisk pace and are very advanced

They tend to exaggerate a lot but who knows hehe. I think the main thing is to get good teachers. I have had bad teachers and it really ruins the semester.

I can just say one thing that they are not exaggerating..
In that case i will say come to India and study here for one semester,if possible in any IIT and know the difference yourself...

Believe me most of those Indian students whom you will find at Undergraduate level in Universities like Cornell,Berkeley are possibly the ones who can not qualify the JEE..

 

[leright]

I can just say one thing that they are not exaggerating..
In that case i will say come to India and study here for one semester,if possible in any IIT and know the difference yourself...

Believe me most of those Indian students whom you will find at Undergraduate level in Universities like Cornell,Berkeley are possibly the ones who can not qualify the JEE..

I have heard from an Indian friend that yes, the program is much harder, but for the wrong reasons. Since in India the academic system is setup where your entire grade is determined by your final grade, so there are no homework assignments or hour exams. This means that the students end up cramming (i.e. memorizing) tons of material just to pass a test, and they do not truly learn anything.

So, while the subject matter may be more advanced, do the students truly understand the subject matter, or do they just cram a bunch of meaningless garble (i.e. formulas and procedures) into their minds to pass a test while not really having a very deep understanding?

World class scientists do not memorize a lot...is this what Indian students are doing? I am told by many Indians that this is the case. Because I will say, memorizing a bunch of meaningless stuff without ANY understanding is hard work, but I sure as hell am not learning anything. Not only does India have a disproportionately small number of nobel laureates for its population, it has a disproportionately small number of nobel laureates for the number of indians coming to America. Is funding really the issue here, or is it the ways things are taught?

Also, is it a PROBLEM that the subject matter is blown over so quickly? It may be. Classical mechanics, for instance, is not something you can learn completely in a few days. You can't just cover all of classical mechanics in a week and then jump into more advanced topic. There is a lot of theoretical and experimental framework that went into developing these concepts, and these things should be understood also, and it certainly takes more than a couple weeks to learn this properly.

For instance, when the issue of the distance formula (distance between two points) came up, my Indian friend tried to remember the formula. I asked him, what is there to memorize? I asked him if he knew the pythagorean theorem and of course he did, but he still was trying to memorize the formula. I obviously showed him what the distance formula was and how it was derived from the pythagoream theorem and now he understands that he will never have to remember the distance formula again.

My friend is extremely intelligent, but for some reason he always tries to resort to his memory to find a 'formula' like this, even though he knows all of the concepts he needs to reason out the solution.

Take me, for instance. I could probably go into a graduate level advanced physics course and memorize a bunch of formulas and 'steps' and still do decently, given the course caters to these types of students by giving test problems that are very close to the HW. However, I sure wouldn't really understand the subject matter.

Also, have you read "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman"? Feynman talks about a similar experience when he taught in Brazil for a few months, claiming that he was pleasantly surprised when he say HS students carrying graduate level QM book, but was quickly displeased when he found that when he really picked the students brains, they didn't really understand any of it, but they sure knew lots of fancy formulas! Feynman had a large conference with many government officials to address this problem, and soon the Brazilian educational system was turned around completely. I recommend you pick this book up, just because it is a very entertaining read.

Finally, I am told that an American (even from MIT, for instance), when they go to IIT, would have a large amount of trouble at IIT, but really it's because of time constraints on the final exam. Obviously someone who crammed a bunch of stuff for the past 3 months for the sole purpose of passing that final exam will be able to work through it more quickly than someone that needs to think through the problems. If you eliminated the time constraint, the MIT student would fare much better.

I certainly do not want to base all of India's educational system on a few people's experience, however...this is just the other side of the story which I have heard from a couple people.

 

[Gokul43201]

I have heard from an Indian friend that yes, the program is much harder, but for the wrong reasons. Since in India the academic system is setup where your entire grade is determined by your final grade, so there are no homework assignments or hour exams. This means that the students end up cramming (i.e. memorizing) tons of material just to pass a test, and they do not truly learn anything.

This may be true at the high school level, and the average or below average college/university. It couldn't be farther from the truth when it comes to the very tiny number of top-tier universitites/institutes like the IITs.

So, while the subject matter may be more advanced, do the students truly understand the subject matter, or do they just cram a bunch of meaningless garble (i.e. formulas and procedures) into their minds to pass a test while not really having a very deep understanding?

World class scientists do not memorize a lot...is this what Indian students are doing? I am told by many Indians that this is the case.

Indian students will tend to do whatever it takes to crack the exams. It is a pity that the vast majority of schools are very poorly funded and run, and have testing practices that fail to motivate understanding.

Because I will say, memorizing a bunch of meaningless stuff without ANY understanding is hard work, but I sure as hell am not learning anything. Not only does India have a disproportionately small number of nobel laureates for its population, it has a disproportionately small number of nobel laureates for the number of indians coming to America. Is funding really the issue here, or is it the ways things are taught?

According to the CIA factbook, India has a literacy rate of nearly 60%. As recently as a couple of decades ago, this number was in the 20's. And that's counting all the people that have the equivalent of at least a 3rd grader's ability to read/write.

Yes, there are nowhere near enough schools, and the average of them have way poorer facilities than the worst off of the inner city schools here. It's only the private schools in urban areas that have any money at all.

Until recently, India was labeled an 'underdeveloped country' - it now is called an 'developing country'. The socio-economic conditions were hardly comparable with with any of the western countries. India's per capita GDP, in the 80's was about $200, compared to ~$20,000 or more in most of the industrialized world at the time - not the best conditions for breeding Nobel laureates.

Also, is it a PROBLEM that the subject matter is blown over so quickly? It may be. Classical mechanics, for instance, is not something you can learn completely in a few days. You can't just cover all of classical mechanics in a week and then jump into more advanced topic. There is a lot of theoretical and experimental framework that went into developing these concepts, and these things should be understood also, and it certainly takes more than a couple weeks to learn this properly.

I do not believe that an highly excessive amount of knowledge is blown over too quickly. I do believe however, that better time management/allotment is required.

For instance, when the issue of the distance formula (distance between two points) came up, my Indian friend tried to remember the formula. I asked him, what is there to memorize? I asked him if he knew the pythagorean theorem and of course he did, but he still was trying to memorize the formula. I obviously showed him what the distance formula was and how it was derived from the pythagoream theorem and now he understands that he will never have to remember the distance formula again.

My friend is extremely intelligent, but for some reason he always tries to resort to his memory to find a 'formula' like this, even though he knows all of the concepts he needs to reason out the solution.

I wouldn't likely consider your friend "extremely intelligent".

Take me, for instance. I could probably go into a graduate level advanced physics course and memorize a bunch of formulas and 'steps' and still do decently, given the course caters to these types of students by giving test problems that are very close to the HW. However, I sure wouldn't really understand the subject matter.

A graduate level advanced physics course where? Are you talking about a course an an IIT, for instance? If you are, I'd insist that the emphasis in your evaluation should lie on the word "probably". I believe you are extremely mistaken.

Also, have you read "Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman"? Feynman talks about a similar experience when he taught in Brazil for a few months, claiming that he was pleasantly surprised when he say HS students carrying graduate level QM book, but was quickly displeased when he found that when he really picked the students brains, they didn't really understand any of it, but they sure knew lots of fancy formulas! Feynman had a large conference with many government officials to address this problem, and soon the Brazilian educational system was turned around completely. I recommend you pick this book up, just because it is a very entertaining read.

I had a way more shocking experience when I taught my first university physics course for honors students here. It was a Physics 131 (Classical Mechanics) lab, and all but one of two of the 25 or so students in the class were blank, when I asked them about the Newtonian equations of motion (for a particle with constant acceleration).

Finally, I am told that an American (even from MIT, for instance), when they go to IIT, would have a large amount of trouble at IIT, but really it's because of time constraints on the final exam. Obviously someone who crammed a bunch of stuff for the past 3 months for the sole purpose of passing that final exam will be able to work through it more quickly than someone that needs to think through the problems. If you eliminated the time constraint, the MIT student would fare much better.

I wouldn't be so sure.

I certainly do not want to base all of India's educational system on a few people's experience, however...this is just the other side of the story which I have heard from a couple people.

The other side of the story is that India affords a very poor education to most of its population, but despite that, I estimate the the average Indian high school graduate is better prepared in the sciences and math than the average American. I'd also venture that the Average IIT graduate scores higher on the GRE than the Average MIT graduate. But that's as far as I'd take that comparison.

 

[0rthodontist]

I've had one professor who went to IIT Madras and UCLA. He was noticeably, extremely smart, even more so than most professors. He got his BTech from IIT in 1998 and speaks perfect, rapid, almost unaccented English. In addition he was very motivated in finding the answer to any question he didn't know immediately (which was very rare, and always on some obscure technical point) and a few months ago won a prestigious CAREER award.

 

[neutrino]

Here's another (American) perspective -
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/19/60minutes/main559476.shtml?CMP=ILC-SearchStories

 

[sid_galt]

The other side of the story is that India affords a very poor education to most of its population, but despite that, I estimate the the average Indian high school graduate is better prepared in the sciences and math than the average American.

By better prepared in science and math, if you mean to say that the average Indian high school grad. (who goes to a decent school and wants to pursue a career in science/math/engineering) has more knowledge of science and math than the average American grad. who wants to pursue a career in science/math/engineering, I think that is very likely.

But for pursuing a career in science/math/engineering atleast, passion is also required which I find to be singularly lacking in Indian high school grads. Maybe that's why many Indians will do extremely well in their careers within the context of what they have been taught but are not really innovative (atleast that is what I have gleaned from my experience and I am an Indian). I don't mean to say all Indians are like that. But most of whom I have known do science/math/engineering because that is what everyone does, that is what they have been told to do. It is rarely because of their own initiative.

 

[heman]

Have a look at what we have to boast about! Collections from one of of the
most exuberant campuses in India.
IIT kanpur
Enjoy..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/amadeshiya/show/

 

[J77]

I haven't worked with anyone from IIT.

I'd only heard of it when people have mentioned how hard the entrance exams are, on here.

Doesn't mean it's not a quality place tho...

 

[0rthodontist]

The Indian brain drain does have an upside for India--many Indians in America have families in India who they send money to from their good jobs here.

 

[heman]

most of you would have read it by now... thanks to mssgrs ... but it still deserve to be posted here... so check it ..

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institute_of_Technology

 

[leright]

most of you would have read it by now... thanks to mssgrs ... but it still deserve to be posted here... so check it ..

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Indian_Institute_of_Technology

I sure hope that article is far from the truth...

 

[heman]

now when i see it again...the content is gone..see the date of modification..By the way a very funny description of iit was given in that!

 

[acpsiddhartha]

I think IIT entrance exam is one of the most difficult exam in world.
and who said the final grade depends on final exam only? most of the time the final exam is of 50-60% , which is more or less same as USA.
IIT is really a nice place to study/enjoy life. you have lots of freedom there.