I'm a medical physicist, how can I get into astronomy/astrophysics?

[Mulz]

Hi,

I'm a recently graduated medical physicist (currently also working as a medical physicist) and I still have a thirst for physics, especially astronomy and astrophysics which are my hobbies. The problem is that we were only taught pure physics and mathematics during the first 2 years of our education, the rest 3 years were mixed and, well, about medical physics. In my opinion, going 3 years without doing the general mathematics and physics is not exactly good on the memory.

Basically, I have forgotten the basics and I'm looking to enlist in an undergraduate physics program where I would start immediately at the 3:rd year instead of 1:st (since I've already passed all the courses). My plan is to then go for a master's degree in astronomy or astrophysics, if I don't feel stupid.

The reason why I want to get into astronomy or astrophysics is simply because that was my original plan, but I never went that route because there were very few that would get a job directly related to it (most would end up working in economics, IT, or some other occupations) and because I enjoyed particle physics, which medical physics is, in a sense, all about. I've always had a fascination with stars, planets and the universe as a whole.

The courses we took during the first 2 years, which I've mostly forgotten by now, are:

1. Mechanics A
2. Thermodynamics
3. Wave physics and optics
4. Mathematical physics A
5. Electromagnetism
6. Quantum mechanics A
7. Subatomic physics
8. Electricity
9. Linear algebra II
10. Numerical analysis
11. Multivariable analysis
12. Analytical functions and transform theory
13. Mathematical statistics and discrete mathematics

I'm wondering if there are textbooks that are good for covering all of these subjects in a rather quick and simple manner? Basically a physics textbook that is broad and branches out into the basics of many fields, such as in the list above. I can probably live with minimal mathematics, I doubt I need to know all the proofs in order to get started.

I'm also wondering how difficult this would be? To concentrate all those courses in <1 year while working full time. I remember struggling a bit when I studied the first 2 years, mostly due to poor study habits. I've matured now, maybe it will be a lot easier. Maybe not. I feel like it would be a huge disadvantage to have not done anything for 3 years.

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Plan B would just to go stargazing or something while reading astronomy and astrophysics in my spare time. I still would like to have the opportunity to perhaps work in that field, which would require a degree.

 

[MidgetDwarf]

Why would going to a BS program in physics be a good idea, if you already have graduate degree in medical physics? Surely, by now you know how to self study. What you are proposing is frankly, a waste of time and money.

 

[Mulz]

Why would going to a BS program in physics be a good idea, if you already have graduate degree in medical physics? Surely, by now you know how to self study. What you are proposing is frankly, a waste of time and money.

I want to go for a bachelors in physics (takes 1 year), then a master's in astronomy or astrophysics (takes 2 years). So 3 years in total. My hope is to maybe land a job in that field, but it's probably unlikely? a PhD would be necessary? I doubt I'm going above a master's.

Education here in Sweden is "free", I don't pay anything asides for rent. And taxes just like everyone else.

I do know how to self study, I just don't know how to start when there's so much that would need to be revised. If it's even necessary to put much effort into it, or if I should get a refresher without too much detail.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I'm looking to enlist in an undergraduate physics program where I would start immediatel

In the US at least, this is not going to happen.

then a master's in astronomy or astrophysics ... maybe land a job in that field,

You will not become an astronomer (thanks for the correction!) without a PhD.

 

[berkeman]

I want to go for a bachelors in physics (takes 1 year), then a master's in astronomy or astrophysics (takes 2 years).

Since you already have the Bachelor's degree in a Physics-related field, can't you apply straight for a Master's program?

 

[Choppy]

In my experience people usually go the other direction... they complete a PhD in astrophysics or astronomy and then jump over to medical physics as a career.

There is some overlap between astronomy and the medical imaging side of medical physics. Perhaps one avenue to pursue would be graduate work in medical physics with an imaging project. There is, for example, a lot of work going on right now in the use of machine learning for object or pattern detection in images (radiomics), which I could see having applications in astronomy. Then once you have that advanced skill set, you could look for an astronomy group to get involved with academically. It's just a thought.

 

[Mulz]

Since you already have the Bachelor's degree in a Physics-related field, can't you apply straight for a Master's program?

No, I can if I do a 3:rd year in the undergraduate physics program, then can I apply for a Master's. We studied alongside physics students during the first 2 years, but not the 3:rd year, which is the one I would have to take.

In the US at least, this is not going to happen.You will not become an astronomer (thanks for the correction!) without a PhD.

Here in Sweden, medical physicists study pure physics and mathematics during the first 2 years (alongside physics students), which means that I have passed the same courses as them. If I now were to apply for the physics program, I wouldn't have to do the first 2 years, I would be able to immediately jump ship to the 3:rd year. Many have done this, although the other way around by going into medical physics.

I'm literally not allowed to retake the courses I've passed, from a legal standpoint. That's why I can't start from the 1:st year, it would have to be 3:rd.

----------------------------

What can you do with a Master's in astronomy or astrophysics? Is there a very low chance of landing a job related to these two fields? E.g. a job in an observatory, or elsewhere related to the study of anything outside of Earth.

 

[Mulz]

In my experience people usually go the other direction... they complete a PhD in astrophysics or astronomy and then jump over to medical physics as a career.

There is some overlap between astronomy and the medical imaging side of medical physics. Perhaps one avenue to pursue would be graduate work in medical physics with an imaging project. There is, for example, a lot of work going on right now in the use of machine learning for object or pattern detection in images (radiomics), which I could see having applications in astronomy. Then once you have that advanced skill set, you could look for an astronomy group to get involved with academically. It's just a thought.

I love learning about detectors, how they work, the different types for different applications and different particles/photons (or different energies), how images are reconstructed, how the images are worked (e.g. sharpening in the Fourier domain) and so on. This is literally my favorite part of medical physics, just learning about detectors.

The problem is that my job is not at all about detectors, I'm primarily an assistant with very varied assignments, everything from routine checkups on X-ray equipment to working on the statistical processing of personnel and patient radiation doses. When I do have time leftover, I spend it simply reading about detectors and image processing.

-------------------

Can you give me advice on books where I can learn more about detectors and image processing? Not so much from an engineering perspective, more about the different mathematical ways of working on images, and a book that contains all currently used detectors and plentiful information about them.

Maybe I should pursue astronomy in my spare time, maybe just keep it as a hobby instead of complicating my career lol. Doubt I would go far without a PhD there.

 

[Choppy]

My go to imaging textbook was always Bushberg et al. "The Essential Physics of Medical Imaging." Beyond that, the books tend to be modality specific.

 

[Mulz]

My go to imaging textbook was always Bushberg et al. "The Essential Physics of Medical Imaging." Beyond that, the books tend to be modality specific.

Thanks, going to get this one and see.

 

[gwnorth]

I never went that route because there were very few that would get a job directly related to it (most would end up working in economics, IT, or some other occupations)

So how do you think that's changed?

What can you do with a Master's in astronomy or astrophysics? Is there a very low chance of landing a job related to these two fields? E.g. a job in an observatory, or elsewhere related to the study of anything outside of Earth.

You're most likely going to need a PhD which based on your current plan is going to take you 6-7 years to do.

Basically, I have forgotten the basics and I'm looking to enlist in an undergraduate physics program where I would start immediately at the 3:rd year instead of 1:st (since I've already passed all the courses)

You say you've forgotten the basics, so are you prepared to self-study the foundational material in order to jump into 3rd year? How much time will it take before you feel like you're back up to speed?

 

[Mulz]

So how do you think that's changed?You're most likely going to need a PhD which based on your current plan is going to take you 6-7 years to do.You say you've forgotten the basics, so are you prepared to self-study the foundational material in order to jump into 3rd year? How much time will it take before you feel like you're back up to speed?

I'm probably just going to keep it as a hobby or something.

Is a master's even enough for getting astronomy related jobs? From what I've heard, no. But I'm not sure how credible this is. If a PhD is really necessary, then it's pointless. Too much time, and no guarantee of getting a PhD position.

Not sure how much self studying would be required, exactly. Maybe the new courses will have refreshers, maybe not. Still would have to spend time self studying alongside work, might be difficult.

 

[MidgetDwarf]

I want to go for a bachelors in physics (takes 1 year), then a master's in astronomy or astrophysics (takes 2 years). So 3 years in total. My hope is to maybe land a job in that field, but it's probably unlikely? a PhD would be necessary? I doubt I'm going above a master's.

Education here in Sweden is "free", I don't pay anything asides for rent. And taxes just like everyone else.

I do know how to self study, I just don't know how to start when there's so much that would need to be revised. If it's even necessary to put much effort into it, or if I should get a refresher without too much detail.
I want to go for a bachelors in physics (takes 1 year), then a master's in astronomy or astrophysics (takes 2 years). So 3 years in total. My hope is to maybe land a job in that field, but it's probably unlikely? a PhD would be necessary? I doubt I'm going above a master's.

Education here in Sweden is "free", I don't pay anything asides for rent. And taxes just like everyone else.

I do know how to self study, I just don't know how to start when there's so much that would need to be revised. If it's even necessary to put much effort into it, or if I should get a refresher without too much detail.

Start with an intro physics books read it/work through it from the start of mechanics until you finish the chapters on electricity and magnetism. See how long it takes you. Work through it without looking at solutions and try to do every odd problem. You could be on the 4th chapter of an intro mechanics book by Sunday, assuming you practice for 2 hours a day while doing odd problems). The more you contemplate, the more time wasted...

This will tell you how much of the basics you forgot. Then start with mechanics (upper div), then EM (upper div), see how long this takes you. You may need to review a bit of vector calculus and ODE while doing this. proceed in a similar manner.

Not difficult...I am stunned a PhD holder in a stem field does not how to gauge how much material they have forgotten.

 

[berkeman]

Not difficult...I am stunned a PhD holder in a stem field does not how to gauge how much material they have forgotten.

Which/what PhD holder?

 

[MidgetDwarf]

Which/what PhD holder?

He is a PhD holder in medical physics... So he should have taken courses a typical physics major in a BS programs takes.

 

[berkeman]

He is a PhD holder in medical physics... So he should have taken courses a typical physics major in a BS programs takes.

I missed that in his posts. Where did you see that?

I'm a recently graduated medical physicist (currently also working as a medical physicist)

 

[MidgetDwarf]

I missed that in his posts. Where did you see that?

I may have assumed that that working as a medical physicist implied someone with a PhD. But I see he mentioned working as an assistant, so seems unlikely. Regardless, he has a degree in a subfield of physics. Shouldn't be too hard to crack an intro book and proceed upwards...

 

[hutchphd]

Where did you see that?

Check #7, last part.

 

[berkeman]

Check #7, last part.

??

No, I can if I do a 3:rd year in the undergraduate physics program, then can I apply for a Master's. We studied alongside physics students during the first 2 years, but not the 3:rd year, which is the one I would have to take.
Here in Sweden, medical physicists study pure physics and mathematics during the first 2 years (alongside physics students), which means that I have passed the same courses as them. If I now were to apply for the physics program, I wouldn't have to do the first 2 years, I would be able to immediately jump ship to the 3:rd year. Many have done this, although the other way around by going into medical physics.

I'm literally not allowed to retake the courses I've passed, from a legal standpoint. That's why I can't start from the 1:st year, it would have to be 3:rd.

----------------------------

What can you do with a Master's in astronomy or astrophysics? Is there a very low chance of landing a job related to these two fields? E.g. a job in an observatory, or elsewhere related to the study of anything outside of Earth.

 

[hutchphd]

Undergrad degree where the third year is medical speciality. Don't see any PhD reference so I'm clearly not on top of this......(no mas!)

 

[Mulz]

He is a PhD holder in medical physics... So he should have taken courses a typical physics major in a BS programs takes.

I said I'm a recent Master's graduate. I don't have a PhD. The last 3 years were only medical physics, and honestly, the pure physics part was quite minimal. The first 2 years of my education were spent doing only physics and maths, the rest 3 years were medical physics. It is those 2 first years I've forgotten (the courses I listed above).

Medical physics: 2 years of basic physics (not in the medical physics department) + 3 years of medical physics (in the medical physics department)

I may have assumed that that working as a medical physicist implied someone with a PhD. But I see he mentioned working as an assistant, so seems unlikely. Regardless, he has a degree in a subfield of physics. Shouldn't be too hard to crack an intro book and proceed upwards...

I have a Master's yes, no PhD. I have a license for medical physics here in Sweden. The last 3 years were spent only on medical physics, where the physics part was minimal for whatever reason. Meaning I've forgotten the first 2 years (where we were taught the basics in a different department), shown in the list above in my OP.

 

[vela]

How do the first two years of physics in Sweden correspond to classes in the US? The physics in the first two years in the US is pretty basic stuff. For some students, it's the first time they've taken a physics course. I've gotten the impression that the first two years of university in Europe tends to be a bit more advanced.

 

[Mulz]

How do the first two years of physics in Sweden correspond to classes in the US? The physics in the first two years in the US is pretty basic stuff. For some students, it's the first time they've taken a physics course. I've gotten the impression that the first two years of university in Europe tends to be a bit more advanced.

I'm not sure. The courses we took during two first 2 years are in my OP, there's a list. We learned all the basics in the first 2 years I think. High school was quite forgettable, not "real" physics (covered mostly mechanics and some other physics fields, but not in any form of depth).

 

[vela]

There are a number of open education textbooks for introductory physics available for free. OpenStax is a prominent one (though I don't particularly care for it). You could try using one of these texts as a refresher.

@malawi_glenn started a thread recently listing a bunch of free textbooks available on the internet. Check that out as well.

 

[malawi_glenn]

Here it is Thread 'Collection of Free Online Math Books and Lecture Notes' https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...-online-math-books-and-lecture-notes.1044710/

 

[Mulz]

Here it is Thread 'Collection of Free Online Math Books and Lecture Notes' https://www.physicsforums.com/threa...-online-math-books-and-lecture-notes.1044710/

There are a number of open education textbooks for introductory physics available for free. OpenStax is a prominent one (though I don't particularly care for it). You could try using one of these texts as a refresher.

@malawi_glenn started a thread recently listing a bunch of free textbooks available on the internet. Check that out as well.

I'm very thankful!

Physics would also be great to have like this structure.

 

[malawi_glenn]

I'm very thankful!

Physics would also be great to have like this structure.

Working on it