Is a physicist and christian relationship possible?

[rootX]

You think I'm ignorant/arrogant/close minded?

No but only thing that might take everything downhill.

 

[SamirS]

Well she's obviously trying to convert you by little, hard to notice steps, or by using the eponymous carrot on a stick ( = is willing to see you tonight if you just were Christian).

You should be perfectly clear about what exactly you want, tell it to her and she should decide if she can live with it or not.
That's the beauty of atheism. It's like the "Off" of a TV; it's no channel. However if two people get together who are theists even of the same category, there are so many types of faiths and shades in the same belief system that can be either exploited or be a general reason for conflict that I find it mind-boggling how people put up with it. It's like if you both like the same type of program but can't agree on a channel.

 

[AwesomeSN]

A fellow Bosniak *thumbs up*

 

[rootX]

Well she's obviously trying to convert you by little, hard to notice steps, or by using the eponymous carrot on a stick ( = is willing to see you tonight if you just were Christian).

You should be perfectly clear about what exactly you want, tell it to her and she should decide if she can live with it or not.
That's the beauty of atheism. It's like the "Off" of a TV; it's no channel. However if two people get together who are theists even of the same category, there are so many types of faiths and shades in the same belief system that can be either exploited or be a general reason for conflict that I find it mind-boggling how people put up with it. It's like if you both like the same type of program but can't agree on a channel.

closed-mindedness, arrogance, and ignorance ...

 

[SamirS]

closed-mindedness, arrogance, and ignorance ...

That is exactly why again...?

Atheists can be from every part of the spectrum of poilitics, economics, etc. they can discuss how religion should be handled but, if they are true atheists, they won't argue morals or their relationship in religious terms. You can read my earlier post why I think that bending your religious belief system to accommodate a relationship is either dishonest to your religion or to your partner. Being either compromises some part of you or the relationship.

From all the information we know about the happening (which may or may not be completely correct and honest) she, in the best case, hasn't made up her mind if she wants to be with him and compromise her religion (or leave it completely) or if she wants him to come over to her side of the story (by compromising his beliefs or by converting completely). In the worst case, she's trying to manipulate him.

On a personal note, yes, I am completely close-minded towards religious views. I've pondered their metaphysical beliefs over and over and find them rationally unsatisfying. Until they produce real, publicly verifiable and scientific evidence of their respective deities, I'm not even considering their views. Arrogant? Well their beliefs ARE irrational; if naming something for what it is, well, then I'm obviously arrogant. However, I chose to not consider religious women for relationships based on my extended description of my views earlier in this thread. Ignorance? I don't see where outside the fact that I'm basically ignoring any and all faiths and theistic world views until they actually prove what they preach.

 

[rootX]

That is exactly why again...?

Atheists can be from every part of the spectrum of poilitics, economics, etc. they can discuss how religion should be handled but, if they are true atheists, they won't argue morals or their relationship in religious terms. You can read my earlier post why I think that bending your religious belief system to accommodate a relationship is either dishonest to your religion or to your partner. Being either compromises some part of you or the relationship.

From all the information we know about the happening (which may or may not be completely correct and honest) she, in the best case, hasn't made up her mind if she wants to be with him and compromise her religion (or leave it completely) or if she wants him to come over to her side of the story (by compromising his beliefs or by converting completely). In the worst case, she's trying to manipulate him.

On a personal note, yes, I am completely close-minded towards religious views. I've pondered their metaphysical beliefs over and over and find them rationally unsatisfying. Until they produce real, publicly verifiable and scientific evidence of their respective deities, I'm not even considering their views. Arrogant? Well their beliefs ARE irrational; if naming something for what it is, well, then I'm obviously arrogant. However, I chose to not consider religious women for relationships based on my extended description of my views earlier in this thread.

You are going over lots of stuff like how relationships between different beliefs/beliefs-no-beliefs work, how religious people behave, and what is going on in the mind of that girl along with your continuous atheist propaganda... but there's little substance between all of that. It's okay to believe/not-believe what you like but trying to feel good about yourself by judging things you are not a part of/never been part of comes out of ignorance and little bubble wraps.

 

[Hurkyl]

You think I'm ignorant/arrogant/close minded?

I'm not sure how to be open minded other than to respect her beliefs... but if "open minded" means to consider changing my views about the world, then that's something I can't do - not even because I don't want to, but because it wouldn't be genuine.

What you describe is the most extreme form of closed-mindedness -- one that justly inherits the negative connotation associated to the term. You also professed to be hostile to contrary viewpoints. In the special case of views on physics, we have another term for such a person: a crackpot.

 

[lisab]

What you describe is the most extreme form of closed-mindedness -- one that justly inherits the negative connotation associated to the term. You also professed to be hostile to contrary viewpoints. In the special case of views on physics, we have another term for such a person: a crackpot.

He's rejecting the concept of religion because he doesn't believe in the supernatural. (Btw, that's not uncommon amongst people trained to think analytically.) You think that's closed minded?

Are you really saying that someone who rejects make-believe is therefore a crackpot?

 

[chiro]

What you describe is the most extreme form of closed-mindedness -- one that justly inherits the negative connotation associated to the term. You also professed to be hostile to contrary viewpoints. In the special case of views on physics, we have another term for such a person: a crackpot.

I agree somewhat with your statement with regards to the "consideration" issue whereby people should consider other viewpoints before making a comment or some decision. However I don't see anything wrong with the decision that another person should make: If someone makes a decision that is contrary to another persons viewpoint, but yet still respects that other persons viewpoint, then there is no hypocrisy. Its hypocritical when the other person thinks it is wrong to have a conflicting viewpoint.

Also I'd like to point out that many scientists, although branding themselves as "scientists" can be some of the most closed-minded people you will ever meet. They aren't exempt from this trait. Scientists are like other humans, they get emotional, they have core beliefs that are too rigid to change, and they have superior attitudes about themselves especially in comparison to non-scientists. Not all scientists are like this, but some are.

Thankfully most people here at PF will give the other guy/girl a chance and actually hear them out in full before making a comment, but some don't.

Also with regard to crackpots: if someone holds views that really are contrary to others experience be it anecdotal, or experimental, then if they want to hold that view after civil discourse, then that is their decision, end of story. There is no need for either party for the discourse to be dragged out any longer. Hell the crackpot may actually have something important to say even if their main message is wrong. None the less beating your chest to prove superiority is just really really stupid and no-one benefits.

 

[Hurkyl]

He's rejecting the concept of religion because he doesn't believe in the supernatural. (Btw, that's not uncommon amongst people trained to think analytically.) You think that's closed minded?

Are you really saying that someone who rejects make-believe is therefore a crackpot?

Your post doesn't say anything about whether he's open- or closed-minded. His post describes himself as being incapable of even considering differing viewpoints. (Also, you're putting words in his mouth, and replying as if I was responding to those words)

It's probable he's not perfectly closed-minded as he describes. But from his posts I find it more likely that he's closed-minded, rather than a moderate that has really poorly described himself.

(and for the record, I have nothing to say on "ignorant", and very little to say on "arrogant")

 

[Darken-Sol]

i would pursue her. cristian girls tend to be very naughty behind closed doors. if there is actually a deep connection chances are she will choose what she wants over what god wants. that's the beauty of christianity, god will forgive her. as for her trying to save you, explain you plan on using the death bed repentance. another good thing about christianity.

 

[pergradus]

Well I hung out with her Friday and we ended up making out in her car - which was then followed by a very serious and heavy discussion of why her and I simply can't work and we just have to be friends.

So we agreed on that, and hung out again today. Everything went fine except when she was dropping me off we again ended up making out...

This is going to end badly I think... also did I mention she's 11 years old than me?

 

[physics girl phd]

...did I mention she's 11 years old than me?

Is this going to start another thread? Where's the problem there? I know of at least one happily married couple where the husband is 10-11 years younger than his wife.

I guess at least you know she's not putting on weight in her old age...

Maybe I'm old-fashioned or stuck up or something, but this really bothers me, and it seems to be a growing trend that people gain weight and become flabby as they get older.

 

[SamirS]

You are going over lots of stuff like how relationships between different beliefs/beliefs-no-beliefs work, how religious people behave, and what is going on in the mind of that girl along with your continuous atheist propaganda... but there's little substance between all of that. It's okay to believe/not-believe what you like but trying to feel good about yourself by judging things you are not a part of/never been part of comes out of ignorance and little bubble wraps.

You know what's even worse? Making assumptions and then building a case against a certain person on it, like you do. Who says I never was in such a relationship, or more than one? How do you come to the conclusion that I don't know people like that, or have seen such relationships in friends? If you try to feel good about yourself by juding things you haven't understood, by making assumptions, it looks like a bad argument and little bubble wraps.

The thing ist, if you can't or don't want to find a flaw in my argument about compromising your views in those relationships, then please, don't spout just something. You're just saying "there are holes!" but you're not actually saying where and how it looks likle, which is at the very least a dishonest argument.

 

[rootX]

You know what's even worse? Making assumptions and then building a case against a certain person on it, like you do. Who says I never was in such a relationship, or more than one? How do you come to the conclusion that I don't know people like that, or have seen such relationships in friends? If you try to feel good about yourself by juding things you haven't understood, by making assumptions, it looks like a bad argument and little bubble wraps.

The thing ist, if you can't or don't want to find a flaw in my argument about compromising your views in those relationships, then please, don't spout just something. You're just saying "there are holes!" but you're not actually saying where and how it looks likle, which is at the very least a dishonest argument.

If you continue to hold opinions you provided here sure you will continue to see all religious people like that .

Things like
- Judging that girl

Well she's obviously trying to convert you by little, hard to notice steps, or by using the eponymous carrot on a stick ( = is willing to see you tonight if you just were Christian).

- and religious people

However if two people get together who are theists even of the same category, there are so many types of faiths and shades in the same belief system that can be either exploited or be a general reason for conflict that I find it mind-boggling how people put up with it.

triggered my that post.

Who says I never was in such a relationship, or more than one? How do you come to the conclusion that I don't know people like that, or have seen such relationships in friends?

Not only that personal experience cannot be projected unto other people lives but also did you even mention that before to substantiate your opinions? Note: I only saw you blaming religious being used as a mean to cause separation in Balkans.

 

[russ_watters]

Is this going to start another thread? Where's the problem there? I know of at least one happily married couple where the husband is 10-11 years younger than his wife.

It depends on how old the OP is whether that matters, though it is more often seen that way if the male is older.

 

[pergradus]

The age difference isn't a problem really its mostly the religious thing, but it is just another layer of complication.

 

[SamirS]

If you continue to hold opinions you provided here sure you will continue to see all religious people like that .

Well I derive these views from the written accounts of the actual belief system; this would be, for example, the bible. Or documents from religious authority that state something is like this (for example, the pope). I observe that just about all "religious" people who are also quite liberal don't follow many of these rules, hence, I fail to see why they, on a logical (in terms of inner logic of the belief system) level, confess membership in this religion. I find the random following (not truly random, of course; I suspect it has to do with convenience) of those teachings kind of... hard to understand and dishonest to one self. Note that this does not apply to the general idea of a deist, as those can set up arbitrary rules to follow. So if we take the point that most religious people are actually "kind of religious", but identify with a religion like Christianity or Islam (which both have quite radical rules), it follows that they either don't know the actual teachings of their religion or they choose to ignore it (whereas most self-professed religious people would fall somewhere in between - that's my guess); that, on the other hand, disqualifies someone from being a follower of this religion.

If someone has actually worked out those issues they are bound to become an atheist or to follow a religion rigidly; those are the type of people that I can consider for a relationship based on their inner logic (they however disqualifiy on terms of outer logic). As, from a critical thinking point, religion fails to comform to basic logic from an outside perspective, I am an atheist. From my point of view, this follows that I can't produce propaganda for atheism, because true atheism has to be reached by conclusions based on critical thinking; one can only teach analytical and critical thinking.

Things like
- Judging that girl

See, this is why I think you are dishonest in your accusations, because you failed to either read or knowingly omitted this part:

From all the information we know about the happening (which may or may not be completely correct and honest) she, in the best case, hasn't made up her mind if she wants to be with him and compromise her religion (or leave it completely) or if she wants him to come over to her side of the story (by compromising his beliefs or by converting completely). In the worst case, she's trying to manipulate him.

Obviously, we get the information from the thread starter, which implies a certain bias. However, the "best case" is not "judging"; not having made up ones mind about basic world views is not a bad thing per se. On a personal note, I would say that any rational human never leaves this process until the end of his or her life.

- and religious people

triggered my that post.

Regarding this:

However if two people get together who are theists even of the same category, there are so many types of faiths and shades in the same belief system that can be either exploited or be a general reason for conflict that I find it mind-boggling how people put up with it.

Well, I didn't state that it will not work, did I? My only "judgment" here is that I can't understand how they get it to work, because I find it compromises their chosen belief system. Funny thing is, you omitted the part where I actually became judgemental, which is where I stated that I think she is trying to "convert" him step-by-step. I would have guessed that this part is much more inflammatory to you because it is actual, negative judging. However, from our knowledge of the situation, this is the only conclusion I reach, based on personal experience, which always ended up like this in similar circumstances. Of course this is a version of an anecdote, which is not evidence. The lack of strong evidence of what to do in such a situation leads me to judge and make a recommendation of what I think is what's happening. Based on his descriptions, both are not considering giving up their world views, but both require that from the respective person.

So basically, these two so far don't even fall into the successfull part of the relationship spectrum between believers and non-believers. As I value personal integrity over compromising a position only for love, this is my recommendation. This is heavily implied throughout all of my postings in this thread.

Not only that personal experience cannot be projected unto other people lives but also did you even mention that before to substantiate your opinions? Note: I only saw you blaming religious being used as a mean to cause separation in Balkans.

I didn't mention it, no. It should also make no difference in you judging me, otherwise your first sentence in this quote is self-contradicting. I mentioned it when it became relevant, which is when you blamed me of having no experience in this regard, only to use my confession against me, which is again self-contradictory. Make up your mind before you argue about what actually you want to argue. Arguing solely because you feel emotionally involved in either of the possible belief systems makes not a good basis for that.

The Balkans thing is part of the explanation for my disdain for religion. I have, however, as this was quite some time ago, thought my position through. See, I have long-time couples in my family made up of Serbians and Bosniaks. The point however is, they make it work despite this, not because of this. You should also note that the inner logic of a position doesn't have to be related to the outer logic. For example, there is New Age hokum that is not self-contradictory (inner logic), but is contradictory to known laws of physics (outer logic).

 

[Evo]

This thread has become a discussion of religion rather than dating advice. Closed.