Is a top physics grad school possible with a lower tier undergrad?

[schmittno]

I am a senior living in New York state getting ready to submit my college applications.

Colleges I Have Looked At:
RPI, UoR, RIT, Clarkson, WPI, Stony Brook, and Binghamton

My stats:
3/309 in my class
99% unweighted gpa
1440 SAT (790 Math, 650 Reading) (This score is likely to improve (I expect 1500+) after i retake the SAT in October because I have been consistently getting 720+ in Reading while practicing)
8 AP Classes-
Freshman: AP Computer Science Principals(4)
Sophomore: None
Junior: AP Bio(5), AP Physics(5)
Senior: AP Calc BC, AP Stats, AP Lang, AP Macro, AP Chem
President of my NHS
Going for president of my Science Olympiad this year
I play soccer and run indoor + outdoor track

With these stats I fell like I have a decent shot at better colleges in NY such as Cornell, but since they offer no merit aid (and my family will receive almost no financial aid) I am looking at these on my list. My top options so far are UoR and RPI. I also want to get a lot of research done in college. Will I still be able to go to a top physics grad school (ex. MIT) if I go to these colleges vs. something like Cornell?

 

[gwnorth]

There are far more variables within your control that determine your competitiveness for admission to top Physics graduate programs that go beyond what college you attended for undergrad. Given a sufficiently rigorous curriculum, what will matter more is the strength of your profile. While you may need to hustle a bit more to get relevant research experience at those other schools vs Cornell, you should still be able to craft a competitive profile.

Besides which, have you heard of Donna Strickland?

Donna Theo Strickland is a Canadian optical physicist and pioneer in the field of pulsed lasers. She was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 2018.

Strickland studied for her graduate degree in The Institute of Optics receiving a Doctor of Philosophy degree from the University of Rochester in 1989.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donna_Strickland

I'd say that the University of Rochester was no slouch in the field of Physics. I also know that RPI and SUNY Stony Brook are also well regarded (though I don't know about the rest).

 

[gleem]

I should assume that you have searched online websites that review or rank colleges and university programs but if you haven't then here is one for an undergrad program
https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges-for-physics/

Also keep in mind the type of institution you wish to attend small, medium or large since the cultures will vary.
BTW in the above link, Clarkson is not ranked but in greater than #214 on the list. All your other choices are ranked between 27 and 100. Also the website gives links to the instituion with information regarding assistance and admission statistics.

Grad programs get applications from all types of UG programs. They will scrutinize applications from less familiar programs more intensely if they pass initial muster for GPA, research experience and credible letters of recommendation. Just remember competition at the top grad schools is keen so when deciding on an undergraduate program make sure their curriculum is comprehensive and that they have a signifcant undergrad research program particularly one that you find interesting.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Let's get a couple things out of the way.

First, your undergraduate school's reputation matters, but it is one factor of many. It would be better to do well at Stony Brook than to do poorly at MIT.

Next, your list of accomplishments is irrelevant to the question you asked, and comes across as bragging. Don't be that guy. It's also not very good bragging. MIT is not looking for 1440's. Yes, you say you'll do better. It's more important -and harder - to actually do better than to say so. (i.e. "Accomplish first, brag second") This is, as I said, irrelevant and can only serve to distract.

Next, don't be so quick to look down at Cornell. It's an excellent school.

The most important factors, though, are not where you go. They are what you accomplish wherever you go.

 

[schmittno]

Let's get a couple things out of the way.

First, your undergraduate school's reputation matters, but it is one factor of many. It would be better to do well at Stony Brook than to do poorly at MIT.

Next, your list of accomplishments is irrelevant to the question you asked, and comes across as bragging. Don't be that guy. It's also not very good bragging. MIT is not looking for 1440's. Yes, you say you'll do better. It's more important -and harder - to actually do better than to say so. (i.e. "Accomplish first, brag second") This is, as I said, irrelevant and can only serve to distract.

Next, don't be so quick to look down at Cornell. It's an excellent school.

The most important factors, though, are not where you go. They are what you accomplish wherever you go.

I didn't intend to brag, just wanted to give you a sense of myself and the colleges that will fit these stats. I am well aware of the lacking SAT score. Math came easy, but I have been working hard on English which has always been my worse subject. I have put the work in and the score will improve because it is not just luck that I am getting 80-100 points better when I take it now vs then. This is why I added it, again just to give you a sense of myself. Also I was never looking down on Cornell. I was actually putting it in the same league as MIT. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me and I just wanted to say this to clarify a few things. I'm sorry if I came off as bragging.

 

[Vanadium 50]

"I'm not bragging. Just giving you all an opportunity to admire my wonderfulness." Not the first time we've heard this. As I said, it's not relevant and it's really not a good look.

You seem to be counting your chickens before they have hatched. Maybe your test scores will improve. Happens. Maybe the won't. Happens too. Maybe they'll even go down. That happens too. This continues on to your grad school plans - you need to get excellent grades, test scores, and letters of recommendation, none of which are guaranteed at this stage.

Your school list is very hard to understand. Clarkson and Cornell are in no way peer institutions. Maybe one is better for you than the other, but I suspect there is little overlap in their applicant pool. Stony Brook and Binghamton but not Buffalo? I fail to see the logic there. Your list has state schools, private schools, small schools, big schools, STEM-concentrated and liberal arts, all together. I would recommend you spend some thought on what you are looking for, remove those schools that are not, and possibly add more that are.

 

[CrysPhys]

Next, don't be so quick to look down at Cornell. It's an excellent school.

Clarkson and Cornell are in no way peer institutions.

The OP is not placing Cornell into the same list as the others. My reading of the OP's first post and follow-up post concerning Cornell is that they consider Cornell to be a much superior school than the ones on their list. But they consider Cornell to be out of reach financially.

With these stats I fell like I have a decent shot at better colleges in NY such as Cornell, but since they offer no merit aid (and my family will receive almost no financial aid) I am looking at these on my list. My top options so far are UoR and RPI. I also want to get a lot of research done in college. Will I still be able to go to a top physics grad school (ex. MIT) if I go to these colleges vs. something like Cornell?

Also I was never looking down on Cornell. I was actually putting it in the same league as MIT.

 

[schmittno]

Your school list is very hard to understand. Clarkson and Cornell are in no way peer institutions. Maybe one is better for you than the other, but I suspect there is little overlap in their applicant pool. Stony Brook and Binghamton but not Buffalo? I fail to see the logic there. Your list has state schools, private schools, small schools, big schools, STEM-concentrated and liberal arts, all together. I would recommend you spend some thought on what you are looking for, remove those schools that are not, and possibly add more that are.

Clarkson is mainly there because my dad went there and we think I can get a lot of money from them. My family also wants me to do engineering instead of physics or with physics, hence schools like WPI and RIT. My high-school also gave me $78,000 across 4 years at RIT and that is mainly why it's there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the best physics schools on my list are between UoR and RPI. Would you be able to recommend any other top 50 physics schools around NYS that give generous merit aid?

 

[schmittno]

The OP is not placing Cornell into the same list as the others. My reading of the OP's first post and follow-up post concerning Cornell is that they consider Cornell to be a much superior school than the ones on their list. But they consider Cornell to be out of reach financially.

Thank you. That is what I've been trying to say.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Merit aid is not a reward for past wonderfulness. It is an incentive to attend a school that you would not be otherwise so interested in. If you want merit aid, you usually need to go "downmarket".

 

[schmittno]

You seem to be counting your chickens before they have hatched. Maybe your test scores will improve. Happens. Maybe the won't. Happens too. Maybe they'll even go down. That happens too. This continues on to your grad school plans - you need to get excellent grades, test scores, and letters of recommendation, none of which are guaranteed at this stage.

My test score did improve to a 1540

 

[Vanadium 50]

Good for you.

Um...this isn't just more bragging, is it?