Is America's Critique of China's Policies Justified?

[The Smoking Man]

America Lectures China ... Again

Well it appears the Pot is again talking at the Kettle:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/politics/19china.html?th&emc=th

Rice Warns China to Make Major Economic Changes

WASHINGTON, Aug. 18 - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice warned this week that China must make significant structural changes in its economic policies, lest it remain "a problem for the international economy."
...
"A lot depends on what the Chinese do," Ms. Rice said, speaking more generally. She also made it clear that she was concerned about China's military buildup, which she said "looks outsized for its regional interests." "We're going to continue to press" on "human rights and religious freedom," she added.

I will always wonder where this woman gets her gall when she is a representative of the larges Military power in the world who boasts the 'longest undefended border in the world' with Canada and a 4 state 15' high fence with Mexico who have something akin to sopwith camels and derringers in arms and SHE says China's arms look 'outsiized for its regional interests'.

Duh!

When the USSR was going to arm Cuba in the 60's, they were threatened by the USA.

So far, the USA has armed Taiwan, Japan and the Philippines.

And China's reaction has been? Anybody ... Anybody ... Beueller? :zzz:

The USA also apears on the WORLD Human rights report ... a fact they try to hide by publishing their own report on China every year ... Which for some reason was skipped this year ... some say to stop the derrisive laughter that would have driven them from the floor.

Now by 'a problem for the international economy' what does she mean?

That she didn't like it when the USA was told to cut it out with the application of tarriffs to goods by the WTO? You remember the steel dumping accusations?

Over the spring and summer, several actions by China, including its passage of the Taiwan antisuccession law and its efforts to buy the oil company Unocal oil company and the appliance maker Maytag, combined to send Washington into one of its periods of high anxiety over China.

I find it interesting that the antisuccession law is ranked with the purchases of Maytag and Unocal. Is this a bit of a skewed perception?

Senator Charles E. Schumer, the New York Democrat, acknowledged Thursday in an interview that "the ardor has cooled, but not permanently." He is cosponsor, with Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, of a measure that would impose a 27.5 percent tariff on Chinese imports if China did not revalue its currency. Even the bill's sponsors were surprised when it got 67 votes in a test vote of sorts in April.

Not content with withdrawing from the UN, it seems the WTO also seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Kind of like Kyoto too, in a way... 'If It costs America what they rightly owe, we want no part of it.'

"No American company would be able to take over a Chinese competitor in a way that Cnooc attempted to take over Unocal," it says. "The rules simply don't allow it." Cnooc is the state-controlled Chinese oil company that bid for Unocal.

Ummm ... So what? We are not talking about China here. We are talking about the free market in the USA are we not?

So why did government programs the world over get screwed when ENRON collapsed? ... They had investments in the company.

So governments can't own stocks in oil companies?

Who says?

Besides, the resources this company owns are in Myanmar ... what part of the USA is Myanmar?

Also, the USA is developing drilling operations IN CHINA!?

Elsewhere, the report notes, "China blatantly extorts patented technology from American companies in exchange for market access," adding, "Fairness or adherence to the normal rules of the free market is not the top priority of the Chinese government."

Extorts?

Let's see ... you want access to THEIR markets!?

So tell them you won't pay the price and walk away.

Feel like shutting them down for good in the USA? Ban all Chinese goods.

Go for it.

Then we'll check back in 10 years and see how you're doing.


Talk about spin ... there's so much English on this, I had to type it with a cockney accent.

 

[Smurf]

So... basically more "You're different from us! We don't want to tolerate that, but have no choice".

 

[edward]

thanks I needed that. By the way the fence between Mexico and the USA only has a small portion built. For the life of me at this point I can't understand why after exporting so many jobs to China we don't want to lose Maytag.

Now Unocal was a different matter. You can have our jobs, and you can buy our T-bills but no way are you going to get our oil. Americans are very protective of their oil because we drive around a lot. We will burn a gallon of gas to drive to a store just to buy a quart of milk. Oil was invented in Texas you know, and we aren't about to let anyone mess with Texas.

Hells bells we even start wars with small countries over oil.

Seriously, well partially serious. The next time China wants to buy an American company, open up a business in a small office in the Cayman Islands. Name the new business anything that sounds western.

You can then buy and sell anything you want. Halliburton has been getting away with it for years.

 

[PerennialII]

This made my morning ... thanks ! Can they really be serious when making these statements ... unfortunately I'd say yes .

 

[The Smoking Man]

Now Unocal was a different matter. You can have our jobs, and you can buy our T-bills but no way are you going to get our oil. Americans are very protective of their oil because we drive around a lot. We will burn a gallon of gas to drive to a store just to buy a quart of milk. Oil was invented in Texas you know, and we aren't about to let anyone mess with Texas.

Hmmmm ... Check this out:

Saturday August 20, 01:15 AM


Unocal auction features Chinese vases, bronze lamps

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Japanese dolls, bronze oil lamps and other company memorabilia owned by Unocal Corp. headed to the auction block after the California oil producer's 115-year run as an independent company ended last week.

Several items -- from a fish-shaped vase to a green jade sculpture of three elephants -- originated in China, whose top offshore oil producer's bid to buy Unocal was spurned by the company in favour of its larger American rival Chevron Corp..

A hand-embroidered silk drawing of a cat, for example, was a gift presented to Unocal in commemoration of the start-up of the largest petrochemical complex in China.

Among other items were the Turtle Ship, a glass encased gold ship from Korea, which last fetched a bid as high as $301 on the auction Web site. Baseball trophies from closer to home were not quite as sought after, showing no bids on them.

So, you blocked the Unocal purchase so they couldn't buy back their own oil refinery!?

Just what was this xeonophobic 'bill of goods' sold to the American people by their government?

 

[loseyourname]

Oil was invented in Pennsylvania, not Texas.

 

[russ_watters]

Discovered, loseyourname, discovered. See the general physics section for a thread on the difference.

 

[yu_wing_sin]

Well it appears the Pot is again talking at the Kettle:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/politics/19china.html?th&emc=th

I will always wonder where this woman gets her gall when she is a representative of the larges Military power in the world who boasts the 'longest undefended border in the world' with Canada and a 4 state 15' high fence with Mexico who have something akin to sopwith camels and derringers in arms and SHE says China's arms look 'outsiized for its regional interests'.

Duh!

When the USSR was going to arm Cuba in the 60's, they were threatened by the USA.

So far, the USA has armed Taiwan, Japan and the Philippines.

And China's reaction has been? Anybody ... Anybody ... Beueller? :zzz:

The USA also apears on the WORLD Human rights report ... a fact they try to hide by publishing their own report on China every year ... Which for some reason was skipped this year ... some say to stop the derrisive laughter that would have driven them from the floor.

Now by 'a problem for the international economy' what does she mean?

That she didn't like it when the USA was told to cut it out with the application of tarriffs to goods by the WTO? You remember the steel dumping accusations?

I find it interesting that the antisuccession law is ranked with the purchases of Maytag and Unocal. Is this a bit of a skewed perception?

Not content with withdrawing from the UN, it seems the WTO also seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Kind of like Kyoto too, in a way... 'If It costs America what they rightly owe, we want no part of it.'

Ummm ... So what? We are not talking about China here. We are talking about the free market in the USA are we not?

So why did government programs the world over get screwed when ENRON collapsed? ... They had investments in the company.

So governments can't own stocks in oil companies?

Who says?

Besides, the resources this company owns are in Myanmar ... what part of the USA is Myanmar?

Also, the USA is developing drilling operations IN CHINA!?

Extorts?

Let's see ... you want access to THEIR markets!?

So tell them you won't pay the price and walk away.

Feel like shutting them down for good in the USA? Ban all Chinese goods.

Go for it.

Then we'll check back in 10 years and see how you're doing.


Talk about spin ... there's so much English on this, I had to type it with a cockney accent.

Don't play pretendedly! You are not Chinese, I have looked through your intention. This plot is obvious to infuriate people or test people.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Don't play pretendedly! You are not Chinese, I have looked through your intention. This plot is obvious to infuriate people or test people.

Yeah right ... Who said I WAS Chinese?

You wouldn't be one of these racists that believes that people who live in a location are not allowed to express an opinion are you?

What I did was point out obvious contradictions and omissions.

What YOU did however is called an ad hominem attack.

I suggest you look it up before you continue here.

 

[kaos]

Don't play pretendedly! You are not Chinese, I have looked through your intention. This plot is obvious to infuriate people or test people.

I don't see how him not being chinese has anything to do with this. I am chinese btw and i think most chinese don't give a sh*t about stuff that's happening in the world anyway.Besides, do you have any objections to his points??

 

[solutions in a box]

Don't play pretendedly! You are not Chinese, I have looked through your intention. This plot is obvious to infuriate people or test people.

I don't see a barage of infuriated people posting repiles. Testing people is good, it makes them think.

TSM's posts are biased in China's favor. Then again most posts are biased for or against something. Even the biased posts make people think and thus those people are more likely to contribute to a thread.

It would be sooo boring if we all thought alike.

 

[edward]

Discovered, loseyourname, discovered. See the general physics section for a thread on the difference.

When I stated that "oil was invented in Texas" it was quite tongue in cheek. I should have put a or a at the end of the sentence.

 

[PerennialII]

TSM's posts are biased in China's favor. Then again most posts are biased for or against something. Even the biased posts make people think and thus those people are more likely to contribute to a thread.

Or my take would be that since they don't have the usual biases they may appear so for some observers .

 

[Smurf]

I agree. TSM's post may have been satirical. but it was not biased.

Bias
n.
A preference that prohibites impartial judgement.

(paraphrased from dictionary.com)

 

[yu_wing_sin]

Yeah right ... Who said I WAS Chinese?

You wouldn't be one of these racists that believes that people who live in a location are not allowed to express an opinion are you?

What I did was point out obvious contradictions and omissions.

What YOU did however is called an ad hominem attack.

I suggest you look it up before you continue here.

Why do say you are in Suzhou China?

Your sayings are obvious to infuriate Chinese, I feel you have jim crowism to Chinese.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Why do say you are in Suzhou China?

Your sayings are obvious to infuriate Chinese, I feel you have jim crowism to Chinese.

You obviously don't understand what that field that says 'Location' stands for do you?

Location means 'Where you are'.

I have lived in Suzhou for 2 years now. I live just outside the gates of Soochow (Suzhou) University and have been known to give lectures there on occasion as part of their MBA program.

I feel you are a d!ckhead but I don't say that because I know this would be an ad hominem attack which is considered 'bad form' around here.

Like I said, look it up and then come back and post something meaningful.

If you truly understand what I said in my original post, you would understand that I am quoting Condie and the very fact that her country is guilty of most of the things she accuses the Chinese of doing.

 

[yu_wing_sin]

You obviously don't understand what that field that says 'Location' stands for do you?

Location means 'Where you are'.

I have lived in Suzhou for 2 years now. I live just outside the gates of Soochow (Suzhou) University and have been known to give lectures there on occasion as part of their MBA program.

I feel you are a d!ckhead but I don't say that because I know this would be an ad hominem attack which is considered 'bad form' around here.

Like I said, look it up and then come back and post something meaningful.

If you truly understand what I said in my original post, you would understand that I am quoting Condie and the very fact that her country is guilty of most of the things she accuses the Chinese of doing.

Reflexively, our Chinese know clearly on the sin of America.
Especially we don't like American because of Taiwan problem.
Also, our Asian thinks American and West racism is severe, especially on the political view articles to China and East Asia, distorting the fact.

 

[yu_wing_sin]

My opinion is only reflecting our Chinese and Asian views, no bias, we think USA is an imperialism contry, we don't like it.

 

[EL]

Especially we don't like American because of Taiwan problem.

Who are "we"? Are you talking for all chinese?

 

[yu_wing_sin]

Who are "we"? Are you talking for all chinese?

Many of us.

I can abstract my historic knowledge to this.

America invaded Korea, is wanting to invade and obsess the regime of China and Soviet, to break socialism and control Asia.
American Taiwan problem is wanting to press China.
America invading Vietnam is wanting to invade China and control the Asia to press Soviet and China.

 

[EL]

Many of us.

I can abstract my historic knowledge to this.

America invaded Korea, is wanting to invade and obsess the regime of China and Soviet, to break socialism and control Asia.
American Taiwan problem is wanting to press China.
America invading Vietnam is wanting to invade China and control the Asia to press Soviet and China.

I wasn't interested in why you don't like America. Just wanted to know how you could know "all" Chinese thinks the same way as you do?

 

[yu_wing_sin]

I wasn't interested in why you don't like America. Just wanted to know how you could know "all" Chinese thinks the same way as you do?

As my personal view and experience, I think many of us are. But I don't mean Chinese = all Chinese.

 

[Skyhunter]

My opinion is only reflecting our Chinese and Asian views, no bias, we think USA is an imperialism contry, we don't like it.

Perhaps you should read post #14 for a definition of bias.

 

[DM]

Hilarious to learn how Rice finds the Chinese economy an international problem, surely she's addressing the exports, or so I deduce. With regards to contemplating the recent military show, I actually assumed, despite all of the speculation, that the US would never comment on the military force displayed along with Russia. I guess the irony now, is that they haven't just commented about it but have also managed to chastise it. This audacious move reflects Bush's imperialism at its best. One thing surfaces; protestors march the streets of Washington with many demanding explanations for Iraq's evasion whilst others now begin to tumultuously protest at the neo-imperalism. Remember President Nixon?