Is DeVry University Worth It? A Comprehensive Review and Analysis

[ranger]

I'm not sure of any school in the US that offers a BA in comEng. Personally, I'm going for a bachelors of engineering in the same major. And to some extent I feel insulted that you can call yourself an engineer with a Devry degree. I say this becuase you're not qualified to do most of the designs that we can do. Its a damn rough road to get that engineering degree. And for you to call yourself an engineer and compare yourself to others who had to go through hell to get that degree; its just damn insulting and wrong. Were you able to answer any of the questions chroot asked?

This thread is like those other threads from high school students who claim to be interested in string theory and quantum mechanics...they haven't the slightest clue.

Some responses in this thread were harsh, but I hope you understand why it was so.

 

[cristo]

Sorry! I'm right and unbelievably your all wrong :)

Well, I mean, you could just take the "I'm right and you're wrong" stance, or you could try and answer some of the points that have been put to you. As an outsider who knows nothing about engineering, your argument is incredibly unsubstantial.

 

[daveb]

Do you know how to linear algebra to solve simultaneous equations? Do you know what a linear transformation is, and what the terms 'kernel' and 'image' mean? Do you know how to perform differentiation under the integral sign to compute difficult integrals? Do you know how to get a Taylor expansion of a expression? Do you know to solve elementary ordinary differential equations by separation? Do you know what a 'generalized coordinate' is? Do you know how to find the Fourier transform of a discrete sequence? Do you know how to determine whether or not a linear system is stable?

yup!

Do you know how to use the KVL and KCL to solve passive circuits? Do you know what the virtual short and virtual open principles are for op-amps? Do you know how to build a 2-to-1 multiplexer out of AND gates? Do you know how to write a priority encoder in Verilog? Do you know how to write an I2C slave in microcontroller firmware? Do you know how to write a keyboard ISR for the PC platform? Do you know what the model-view-controller pattern is? Do you know how to write a binary search? Do you know how to balance a red-black tree? Do you know which sort is best when your data set is nearly sorted already? Do you know which list data structures allow constant-time insertion?

Nope!Oh well, I guess that's why I'm not a computer engineer.

 

[NeoDevin]

I suppose it might help to compare the calculus requirements...

The only Calculus requirement for the DeVry CET program is
(As per the DeVry website)

MATH-216- Applied Calculus I
This course covers calculus skills needed to solve engineering technology problems. Topics include functions and limits, methods of differentiation, and integration and related applications. Calculus methods are applied to algebraic, logarithmic and trigonometric functions, emphasizing problem-solving rather than proof of theorems. Computer software is used throughout the course.

At the university which I am currently attending (University of Alberta), these are the required calculus courses for the Computer Engineering degree.

MATH 100 Calculus I
Review of numbers, inequalities, functions, analytic geometry; limits, continuity; derivatives and applications, Taylor polynomials; log, exp, and inverse trig functions. Integration, fundamental theorem of calculus substitution, trapezoidal and Simpson's rules.

MATH 101 Calculus II
Area between curves, techniques of integration. Applications of integration to planar areas and lengths, volumes and masses. First order ordinary differential equations: separable, linear, direction fields, Euler's method, applications. Infinite series, power series, Taylor expansions with remainder terms. Polar coordinates. Rectangular, spherical and cylindrical coordinates in 3-dimensional space. Parametric curves in the plane and space: graphing, arc length, curvature; normal binormal, tangent plane in 3-dimensional space. Volumes and surface areas of rotation.

MATH 201 Differential Equations
First-order equations; second-order linear equations: reduction of order, variation of parameters; Laplace transform; linear systems; power series; solution by series; separation of variables for PDEs

MATH 209 Calculus III
Partial differentiation, derivatives of integrals. Multiple integration using rectangular, cylindrical, and spherical coordinates. Vector Field Theory.

So you're trying to tell us that those four courses are contained in the single course at DeVry?

 

[Ronnin]

When exactly did a certification or a BA become equal to any kind of BS degree? I'm still confused, how can this be so

 

[WolfOfTheSteps]

You know, I always gave Devry and such schools the benefit of the doubt. But after reading Poolman's post, I'm 100% convinced they are far less rigorous than I ever imagined. I honestly felt embarrassed while reading Poolman's defense.

Poolman, I'm sorry, but you would be shocked if you sat in on some EE or CE classes at a reputable university. (you might actually want to do this... find out if you can sit in on an upperclassmen CE class at a local university and see how well you can follow along) I'm an EE, not a CE, but I took an intro to CE course, and Chroot is correct, we were expected to learn the arithmetic in other bases within a week. It's child's play. (in fact, arithmetic in other bases can just as easily be taught to children as arithmetic in base 10!)

Of course, just because you're at Devry doesn't mean you can't be successful, but you just have to accept reality and work with it the best you can.

 

[JasonRox]

You know, I always gave Devry and such schools the benefit of the doubt. But after reading Poolman's post, I'm 100% convinced they are far less rigorous than I ever imagined. I honestly felt embarrassed while reading Poolman's defense.

Poolman, I'm sorry, but you would be shocked if you sat in on some EE or CE classes at a reputable university. (you might actually want to do this... find out if you can sit in on an upperclassmen CE class at a local university and see how well you can follow along) I'm an EE, not a CE, but I took an intro to CE course, and Chroot is correct, we were expected to learn the arithmetic in other bases within a week. It's child's play. (in fact, arithmetic in other bases can just as easily be taught to children as arithmetic in base 10!)

Of course, just because you're at Devry doesn't mean you can't be successful, but you just have to accept reality and work with it the best you can.

My ex-gf went to a reputable engineering school and I attended some of her classes and even saw how hard she was working. It's definitely tough stuff. I go to a regular provincial/state university and I noticed a difference from my school to the reputable. I'm in mathematics too. It's not that mathematics isn't hard or anything, it's just that in Engineering they throw so much **** at you. If I noticed a difference between a state university to a more reputable state university, I couldn't imagine the difference between Devry and a reputable school. Also, I went to a community college and noticed the big difference between that and university. If Devry is lower than a community college, that is just mind bogglingly low.

 

[las3rjock]

I was able to find a year 2000 for the average salary for a BA at MIT.

That's quite impressive, considering that MIT does not confer Bachelor of Arts degrees. Even History majors at MIT receive a Bachelor of Science degree.

 

[Poolman]

I suppose it might help to compare the calculus requirements...

The only Calculus requirement for the DeVry CET program is

ATH-216- Applied Calculus I
This course covers calculus skills needed to solve engineering technology problems. Topics include functions and limits, methods of differentiation, and integration and related applications. Calculus methods are applied to algebraic, logarithmic and trigonometric functions, emphasizing problem-solving rather than proof of theorems. Computer software is used throughout the course.
(As per the DeVry website)



At the university which I am currently attending (University of Alberta), these are the required calculus courses for the Computer Engineering degree.


Quote:
MATH 100 Calculus I
Review of numbers, inequalities, functions, analytic geometry; limits, continuity; derivatives and applications, Taylor polynomials; log, exp, and inverse trig functions. Integration, fundamental theorem of calculus substitution, trapezoidal and Simpson's rules.

MATH 101 Calculus II
Area between curves, techniques of integration. Applications of integration to planar areas and lengths, volumes and masses. First order ordinary differential equations: separable, linear, direction fields, Euler's method, applications. Infinite series, power series, Taylor expansions with remainder terms. Polar coordinates. Rectangular, spherical and cylindrical coordinates in 3-dimensional space. Parametric curves in the plane and space: graphing, arc length, curvature; normal binormal, tangent plane in 3-dimensional space. Volumes and surface areas of rotation.

MATH 201 Differential Equations
First-order equations; second-order linear equations: reduction of order, variation of parameters; Laplace transform; linear systems; power series; solution by series; separation of variables for PDEs

MATH 209 Calculus III
Partial differentiation, derivatives of integrals. Multiple integration using rectangular, cylindrical, and spherical coordinates. Vector Field Theory.

So you're trying to tell us that those four courses are contained in the single course at DeVry?

Measure it by the ranking, introduction algebra is math 105, ect… all universities get number rankings on none bias standards, it is how the state can determine a university from a private school and enable them to transfer credits. The number ranking is determined so that you can transfer credits to another university that has the same number ranking, the higher the ranking, the more advanced the class is. If you took that one calculus math class at Devry, then transferred to your collage, you would no longer need to take those 4 math classes. Understand?

Think about it like this, you must have at least have a calculus 216 to even be able to attended Devry. This means that it’s harder for you to get into Devry then it is for you to get into your home collage. I’m not exactly sure how the number system works, but have the general idea. I do know that it is for transferring credits, and being recognized by the state. Unlike schools like ITT, or any private schools for that matter.

So to answer your question… YES. It is more difficult to get into Devry then it is at your school… like it or not.

 

[JohnDuck]

Poolman, perhaps you should actually make an effort to know what you're talking about. Maybe ask some admissions counselor at an actual university whether DeVry's course will transfer.

Or you could continue to be laughably ignorant. Your choice, really.

 

[FrogPad]

Measure it by the ranking, introduction algebra is math 105, ect… all universities get number rankings on none bias standards, it is how the state can determine a university from a private school and enable them to transfer credits. The number ranking is determined so that you can transfer credits to another university that has the same number ranking, the higher the ranking, the more advanced the class is. If you took that one calculus math class at Devry, then transferred to your collage, you would no longer need to take those 4 math classes. Understand?

Think about it like this, you must have at least have a calculus 216 to even be able to attended Devry. This means that it’s harder for you to get into Devry then it is for you to get into your home collage. I’m not exactly sure how the number system works, but have the general idea. I do know that it is for transferring credits, and being recognized by the state. Unlike schools like ITT, or any private schools for that matter.

So to answer your question… YES. It is more difficult to get into Devry then it is at your school… like it or not.

From http://www.devry.edu/admissions/overview_admission_requirements.jsp

** Each applicant must have earned one of the following educational credentials from a DeVry-recognized organization: a high school diploma or equivalent, a General Educational Development (GED) certificate or a post-secondary degree.

** Have completed an appropriate amount of qualifying college-level work at DeVry-approved post-secondary institutions, with grades of at least C (70%) or a cumulative grade point average of at least 2.00.

** Have achieved both of the following conditions while in a U.S. high school:

**
*Class rank at the 50th percentile or above, or a cumulative grade point average of at least 2.70 on a 4.00 scale, at the end of the junior year or later.
-and-
*An average grade of at least B (80%) in a full-year high school mathematics course at the level of Algebra I or above.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

The only reason people are pushing on you so hard dude, is you are making statements out of... hmm, I don't wan't to necessary call it ignorance... but maybe, blind faith. You seem to be arguing that your school offers an equivalent degree. It does not. It instead offers a engineering technology degree. You have showed beyond doubt that your classes are not equivalent to what someone getting a BS would take. This is the problem! You are denying this.

 

[chroot]

If you took that one calculus math class at Devry, then transferred to your collage, you would no longer need to take those 4 math classes. Understand?

You're insane. From DeVry's course catalog:

MATH-216- Applied Calculus I
This course covers calculus skills needed to solve engineering technology problems. Topics include functions and limits, methods of differentiation, and integration and related applications. Calculus methods are applied to algebraic, logarithmic and trigonometric functions, emphasizing problem-solving rather than proof of theorems. Computer software is used throughout the course.Prerequisite: MATH-181/ 5- 5

That means it's basically a watered-down Calc I class. What on Earth makes you think this one mickey mouse class is equivalent to two years of mathematics in a regular university? Are you nuts? Do you have any clue at all what you're talking about? This class doesn't even mention differential equations!

Think about it like this, you must have at least have a calculus 216 to even be able to attended Devry.

The http://www.devry.edu/cacatalog/index.jsp?catSelection=/cacatalog/xmlnode/cacatalog/cet_program.jsp begs to differ. It shows two classes before calculus as part of the standard curriculum.

Futhermore, the admissions requirements page makes no mention of requiring calculus classes for admission, so I presume you're simply making this crap up. Do you think we don't know how to use google or something?

This means that it’s harder for you to get into Devry then it is for you to get into your home collage.

For the love of God...

Unlike schools like ITT, or any private schools for that matter.

So my credits from Stanford wouldn't be accepted anywhere else, eh?

So to answer your question… YES. It is more difficult to get into Devry then it is at your school… like it or not.

From Peterson's:

Freshman Admission

DeVry requires a high school transcript, an interview, CPT, TOEFL scores for international students. SAT I or ACT scores are recommended.

Entrance Difficulty

DeVry assesses its entrance difficulty as minimally difficult; moderately difficult for electronics engineering technology. For the fall 2002 freshman class, 66% of the applicants were accepted.

Pretty tough, eh? You don't even need to take the SAT.

- Warren

 

[ranger]

...
If you took that one calculus math class at Devry, then transferred to your collage, you would no longer need to take those 4 math classes. Understand?

Holy **** dude! According to this, Devry's calculus I is equivalent to calculus I-III and differential equations? This is utterly pure ignorance. Stop pulling crap out of no where and listen to what everyone is telling you. If possible, try to honestly answer a few of them.

 

[chroot]

I agree with FrogPad, it's just offensive to sit here and listen to this kid try to convince us one dumbed-down (no proofs?!) class on Calc I is the equivalent of my many years of math education. It's beyond annoying or amusing -- it's insulting.

- Warren

 

[chroot]

What's really disgusting is that these are the two highest math classes offered by DeVry:

MATH-230- Applied Calculus II
Topics include sequences, series (especially MacLaurin, Taylor and Fourier), differential equations and difference equations, emphasizing problem-solving methods. Computer software such as MATLAB is used to aid in problem-solving and analyzing concept application.Prerequisite: MATH-216/ 3- 3
MATH-233- Discrete Mathematics
This course introduces discrete mathematics as applied to computer engineering problems. Topics include continuous versus discrete difference equations, data structures, graph theory and numerical methods for discrete systems. Computer software is used in problem modeling and solutions.Prerequisite: MATH-216/ 3- 3

A weakened version of calc II and discrete... and they're not even part of the 'engineering' curriculum. What a f'ing joke.

- Warren

 

[JasonRox]

I agree with FrogPad, it's just offensive to sit here and listen to this kid try to convince us one dumbed-down (no proofs?!) class on Calc I is the equivalent of my many years of math education. It's beyond annoying or amusing -- it's insulting.

- Warren

I'm curious to know if he can become an accredited engineer. Not sure what they are in the US, but I'm sure there are professional designations.

I would guess not.

I always thought of Devry as a school for high school drop outs. They drop out, get there GED later on and then go to Devry.

 

[ranger]

I'm curious to know if he can become an accredited engineer. Not sure what they are in the US, but I'm sure there are professional designations.

I would guess not.

You may be interested in reading this:
http://www.nspe.org/govrel/gr2-4049.asp

The criteria prohibits an accredited engineering technology program from claiming that it gives its graduates the equivalent of an engineering education

- From that very same article.

 

[unit_circle]

I always thought of Devry as a school for high school drop outs. They drop out, get there GED later on and then go to Devry.

Hey man, you can go to a real uni w/ a GED as well! I'm a drop out, got my GED, then went back to school a few years later. I'm a 3.9 student in Physics/Math and I'm going on to grad school. For all intents and purposes a GED is just as good as a HS diploma. Sorry to go off topic but I felt like I must defend the honor of the GED.

 

[huckmank]

Hey man, you can go to a real uni w/ a GED as well! I'm a drop out, got my GED, then went back to school a few years later. I'm a 3.9 student in Physics/Math and I'm going on to grad school. For all intents and purposes a GED is just as good as a HS diploma. Sorry to go off topic but I felt like I must defend the honor of the GED.

I have a friend who dropped out and is getting a PHD in biology. Be proud of it!

 

[JasonRox]

Hey man, you can go to a real uni w/ a GED as well! I'm a drop out, got my GED, then went back to school a few years later. I'm a 3.9 student in Physics/Math and I'm going on to grad school. For all intents and purposes a GED is just as good as a HS diploma. Sorry to go off topic but I felt like I must defend the honor of the GED.

That's not what I think of general drop outs. That's what I think of Devry, or that's what I thought before because I always saw commercials of Devry aimed at drop outs and so on. That was their target market. You can't blame me for thinking that.

 

[euler_fan]

Poolman

1. Engineers are ENGINEERS and Technicians are TECHNICIANS.

2. Technicians, who won't to be considered as Engineers should obtain an BSEE or MSEE.

3. Technicians being recognized as Engineers are company dependent; and how hard do you think that Technician had to work.

4. Recognize the difference, that T in EET, CET, MET is there for a reason.

Lastly, with over 10 years as a Technician working with both Engineers and Technicians, A DeVry Graduate myself currently working on my MSEE. A Technician will always have to have years of work experience on top of his educational background to be consider...; You can figure out the rest for yourself!

 

[FrogPad]

Poolman

1. Engineers are ENGINEERS and Technicians are TECHNICIANS.

2. Technicians, who won't to be considered as Engineers should obtain an BSEE or MSEE.

3. Technicians being recognized as Engineers are company dependent; and how hard do you think that Technician had to work.

4. Recognize the difference, that T in EET, CET, MET is there for a reason.

Lastly, with over 10 years as a Technician working with both Engineers and Technicians, A DeVry Graduate myself currently working on my MSEE. A Technician will always have to have years of work experience on top of his educational background to be consider...; You can figure out the rest for yourself!

Thanks for a REAL response. That's all anybody really wanted. Props to you man.

 

[jtbell]

And on that note, I think it's best to end this thread.