Is Kicking Below the Belt an Acceptable Form of Self-Defense for Men?

[d6rth7ader]

So the young one and I are watching King of the Hill and it is the episode where Bobby took a women's self defense course and learned to kick an attacker in the groin to defend himself. He starts to go around kicking everyone until his dad tells him not to and...well none of this matters. Where I am going with this is that if I were to be atacked, my reflex is to hit the guy in the face or to bite him, not the groin. If that did not work, kicking near the bottom of the zipper would be my second choice.

This was actually taught to me by my stepfather when I was in 1st grade. My friends older brother (he was in 3rd grade) used to walk behind us home and one day he was making fun of his sister and I stood up for her. He ended up hitting me in the face with his lunchbox (back in the day when lunchboxes were metal) and gave me a black eye. That night my stepdad taught me the knee lift and the next time he picked on us - I took care of him.

As men though, is this acceptable fighting? If another guy were to attack or even just start a fight with you, is it socially okay for men to "stoop this low"?


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[Gokul43201]

As men though, is this acceptable fighting? If another guy were to attack or even just start a fight with you, is it socially okay for men to "stoop this low"?

Not unless you're outnumbered. Then, anything goes!

 

[Soilwork]

If the guy is the same size as you then no it isn't OK.

If the guy is the same size as you and is about to kill you then you do whatever the hell you want to get out of that situation.

Then of course if the person is a lot bigger than you or you are just outnumbered then anything goes...however if you are outnumbered you will most likely lose anyway and doing something like that will probably screw you up even more.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yes, I think it depends on the situation. There are times, such as when your life is in jeopardy, that anything goes.

Also, I think one of the most effective defensive moves that one can learn is the art of breaking a knee with a low kick. It doesn't leave you highly vulnerable [as can a relatively high kick to the groin] and it is relatively easily learned. Also, you don't have to be in good shape to pull it off.

In fact, I found that a simple foot sweep can put down the best of them. That gives you time to run.

 

[Astronuc]

I would agree with Ivan - taking out a knee is very effective, but one has to be quick and on target. If the aggressor has had training, and they are able to block one's kick, then one needs a followup punch or kick to the groin.

I prefer not to fight, but there are times when one has no alternative.

 

[Kalimaa23]

In a fight, to point is to get the other guy to stop hiting you as fast as possible...whatever that may take.
That being said, hitting or kicking someone in the groin is not a good tactic against an experienced fighter. You actually have to put yourself in a vulnerable position to hit/kick him there. There are a lot of other, more efficient ways in which you can cause him more then enough pain to back off.

So in conclusion, I don't think it's morally wrong, but I'd look down on people doing it anyway because it's not a smart thing to do.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

A flat hand to the windpipe without warning, if you hit just the right spot they'll be rolling on the ground for ten minutes, don't over do it though or you'll kill someone. Best method of fighting though in all reality is diplomacy, don't get involved in the first place or calm the situation, if that's not possible then try and end it as soon as possible, if the guy/s bigger than you it's highly likely you can outrun him/them over short distances. Any strike to pressure points should quickly disarm a situation, anyone who's been kicked in a pressure point whilst doing a martial art will know just how painful it is. I think possibly the best style against fighters is probably something that means you avoid contact altogether with the opponent

If clearly over matched and in real trouble, as Homer once said "cry like a girl and then when he turns his face away in disgust, hit him in the familly jewels" Something like that

 

[Alkatran]

If this is some random guy on the street, do whatever you have to. Just don't kick a kid in the balls when you have to go back to school the next day. The move probably won't work twice.

 

[Moonbear]

I have my doubts about using a kick to the groin in self defense. Especially if a guy is attacking a woman, I'd think he'd expect her to try that and would be quick and ready to block it.

An advantage to Ivan's approach of going for the knees, or feet/ankles to knock them off-balance, is you can accomplish either of those whether you're facing your attacker or if they've grabbed you from behind, and if you miss your mark, you're still going to give a heck of a bruise to the shin, unlike attempting a kick to the groin, where if blocked, will do nothing as you hit soft tissue of the thigh. Most men have learned to block a kick to the groin by the time they've passed puberty (it's the unexpected accidents that get them after that, not the planned kicks in fights). Of course, if you're in a life-or-death struggle with an attacker, try anything, just don't count on anyone move being sufficient to take him down and escape.

 

[K.J.Healey]

When you say kicking to the knee-cap:
Are you using toes heel or bottom of your foot.

Are you coming in straight+down, or side-kick roundhouse style.

I'm just trying to think about it breaking, and the most I see happening is them dislocating it. I feel itd be hard to shatter if youre not wearing steel toed boots.

But I have found in most fights a quck snap kick to the side of the knee works wonders. It doesn't break anything but buckles their leg throwin them off balance.

 

[Moonbear]

When you say kicking to the knee-cap:
Are you using toes heel or bottom of your foot.

Are you coming in straight+down, or side-kick roundhouse style.

I'm just trying to think about it breaking, and the most I see happening is them dislocating it. I feel itd be hard to shatter if youre not wearing steel toed boots.

But I have found in most fights a quck snap kick to the side of the knee works wonders. It doesn't break anything but buckles their leg throwin them off balance.

When talking defense, I don't think it matters if you actually break the kneecap, or just dislocate it, or snap the ligaments in the knee; any way you do it, they're not going to be running after you very fast when you make your escape, which is the most important thing to accomplish.

 

[Astronuc]

When you say kicking to the knee-cap:
Are you using toes heel or bottom of your foot.

Are you coming in straight+down, or side-kick roundhouse style.

One could do a front kick hitting the knee with the ball of the foot or heel, or front roundhouse with the top side (navicular) which is the bone just in front of the tibia.

Kicking from the side at the joint can cause a lot of pain and ligament damage.

Also, a cross blow to the front of the chin will knock someone out, but it has to be quick and on target.

 

[Physics_wiz]

Take some martial arts classes. Those should get your heart in shape so you can run away fast when you get in a fight.

 

[JasonRox]

Last time I heard about a fight where a guy hit the other in the groin, the victim of the groin hit destroyed the other guy brutally. Worse than it would have been if he had not done that.

I'd recommend not doing it in all cases, especially if you know you are going to lose.

 

[JasonRox]

To the guys who are talking hitting the knees, you must be dreaming.

I've never been in a real fight but I have play fighted, even at my current age, and some people go for the legs first and they never come close. Sure if successful it's great, but I think the chance of that happening is really low unless you are fighting someone really slow, which in that case running without hitting will do.

If I had to choose, I would say try to land one shot. I'm not as big as I used to be right now so it might not hurt so much now, but before I had a good shot. I found that if you play fighted with boxing gloves you can punch through the guard they put up because you have so much more strength than everyone else.

Also, being bigger avoids other things like fights. Guys feel a lot more intimidated and probably scared. I did some stupid stuff at clubs that should have got me into a fight, but didn't because I was probably bigger than the other guy (I don't remember each case). I wasn't even that big either or maybe it's cause I looked like a martial artists. :)

Enough about my old days. :(

Note: I used to get out of trouble a lot because of my friends too. They were all pretty big fighters. I wouldn't dare touch them.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

To the guys who are talking hitting the knees, you must be dreaming.

I've never been in a real fight but I have play fighted, even at my current age, and some people go for the legs first and they never come close.

that's where that part about "learning the art" comes in. Sure, if you've never trained you probably won't pull it off.

A foot sweep is the first move learned in Judo; it comes right after "how to fall down".

 

[Soilwork]

I disagree to a certain extent with the fact that if you are big it will prevent others from wanting to fight you.

From what I've seen if there is a group of **** stirrers then they will be attracted to the big guy by himself instead of the weedy guy.
I know that this sometimes isn't the case, but a lot of the time the group will want to go for the big guy because that allows them to boast and they will each say later on that they beat up a big guy by themselves.

 

[FredGarvin]

Ahhh boy.

First to the OP: The groin shot is just like any other technique. It has it's effects and its consequences. If you are going to tell your kid about this, I hope that you will also explain the consequences of his actions if he does use it. Personally, I wouldn't recommend that he use it unless he absolutely had to and then its best used as a tactic to get enogh time to get the heck out of the area and out of danger. If this is some bully at school or something along those lines, he'll probably make things a lot worse for himself the next time around. He'll get the reputation of a cheap shot artist and they'll be looking for it the next time around with more than just the bully coming at him. If it were my son and there were no other options, I'd rather have him deck the other kid. That would send a bigger message to the bully and they bully's buddies.

To everyone else recommending knee techniques: Are you guys crazy? Taking out someone's knee? The knee techniques are a fable. There are three huge things are wrong with even bringing this up:

1) 99% of the people out there would never pull it off. In the heat of things, the knee is a small, moving target. You aint going to get a good hit on it. I spar on average of 3 times a week. I don't think I could pull it off without wearing the other person down quite a bit before hand. And if I get them to that point, there's no point in going for the knee.

2) If one did actually do damage, you are talking about, probably, a life altering injury to the assailant. Guess who is going to get thrown in jail or sued, or both. Just because someone is harassed by a bully, or gets into a bar fight or whatever, the thought of doing this should not enter your mind. That amount of force is way over the top. Your response to a situation has to be on the same level as the assailant. Can you imagine sitting in a courtroom with the person telling a judge that "yeah. I was drunk and started a fight. But now, thanks to this guy, I have lost my ability to make a living."? Telling a young person to do a technique like that is not a responsible move. They don't have the ability to make the distinctions between what is appropriate. They know that from their teachers/parents. I would feel absolutely horrible if one of the kids from my dojo had to get in trouble because of something like this because it was something we showed them, so it must have been ok to use.

3)Like I already said, this is a very low percentage technique in most cases. If someone were in the life threatening situation that would dictate its use, it's probably not going to be the right thing to do. I cringe at most self defense instructors when they show off a technique like this in a "real world situation." Most of the time, trying to do a technique like that will get you injured or killed.

 

[Echo 6 Sierra]

There's a quote that goes: "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal". Not really, but he leveled the playing field a little.

For kids, a good shot to the pills is the same but the wee one will have to watch his back at school more.

EVERY man should know how to defend himself and his family, regardless. Maybe not fight, but defend at all costs. Who among you would stand idly by and watch someone do harm to a member of your family because he didn't want to "hurt" someone?

 

[Astronuc]

With regard to 'kicking the knee' - I've seen it done, but 'one has to be quick and on target'. The particular case was a kick to the inside just above the knee, which disabled the leg. Both people were experienced fighters however.


It's best to avoid situations where one might be attacked, or otherwise get into a fight.

 

[Moonbear]

Fred, I don't think anyone was suggesting taking out someone's knee in a bar brawl or other "fair fight." I think they're entirely talking about a self-defense situation...i.e., where the other choice is someone dragging you away to kill or rape you. It's not something where you're going to stay to finish the fight, it's something where your goal is to just stop them long enough to get a head start running. It's definitely not something to recommend to a kid for a schoolyard bully, or for a kid at all, because no kid will have the strength to take out a full grown adult.

One tactic for kids to try if being abducted that looks pretty effective when I've seen it demonstrated by kids is to get "sticky." They really aren't going to outrun an attacker, and won't have the strength to fight back and do much damage, so they have a better chance if they just make it difficult for the abductor to carry them off without drawing lots of attention. Dropping to the ground, and wrapping their arms and legs around the abuductor's ankles looked the most effective...the abductor couldn't move, and from that position, has no leverage to pry the kid off their legs either, and it sure is something that gets a lot of people staring if anyone else is around.

For a schoolyard bully, definitely don't teach them to break knees or hit below the belt. That's just going to get your kid into more trouble. Bullies usually go for the kids they think are easy targets, the ones who don't fight back, or look small, or start crying. Sometimes, just teaching your kid to raise their voice and shout back at the bully while staring him right in the eye, telling him what a jerk he is, is enough to get him to back off. Beyond that, while I'm not particularly fond of violence to settle disputes, I think it's okay to teach a kid to hit back IF the other kid hits him first. He doesn't have to stand there and just take it. Sure, he might wind up in trouble with the teachers, and he should know that will be a likely outcome, but sometimes you have to push or punch back.

Maturity comes with knowing the difference between the times when you need to stand your ground and defend yourself and your family, and when it's better to just walk away and say it's not worth it to get into the fight someone is picking.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Fred, I think I know where you are coming from but I also think you're flat wrong. Of all the kicks I have learned and practiced, this is the only one that I would dare try to use. Unless you are highly trained, ANY other kick is likely to land you on your butt when your leg is grabbed. And I don't think catching the weight shift here is any more difficult than landing a good foot sweep - also a fairly easy move for amateurs.

I was talking about life or death situations.