Is Perception Reality? Exploring the Subjectivity of Consciousness

[Koden]

This might sound stupid but, does consciousness = reality? I don't know if that makes sense or not, but I guess what I'm trying to ask is, actually, I don't really know what I'm trying to ask... these type of thoughts are all new to me

 

[stevenb]

This might sound stupid but, does consciousness = reality? I don't know if that makes sense or not, but I guess what I'm trying to ask is, actually, I don't really know what I'm trying to ask... these type of thoughts are all new to me

Well, didn't Descartes say "Cognitos ergo sum" - I think, therefore I am? According to him, consciousness = reality.

Hey, that's not bad for someone new to "these type of thoughts". You just started and already you've matched a great philosopher.

Don't ask me if it's true however. That stuff is much too nebulous for my taste. I prefer "It works, therefore I'm an engineer."

 

[apeiron]

This might sound stupid but, does consciousness = reality? I don't know if that makes sense or not, but I guess what I'm trying to ask is, actually, I don't really know what I'm trying to ask... these type of thoughts are all new to me

Easiest way to see that it doesn't is to ask if a yellow flower is actually yellow?

A surface reflects some wavelength mixture of light. And then our brains construct an experience of various hues.

And then even our physical explanation in terms of "wavelengths" is an abstract concept - a model - rather than a straightforward physical truth.

So consciousness corresponds to reality as a modelling relationship - a useful "truth", not an actual truth.

 

[Upisoft]

This might sound stupid but, does consciousness = reality? I don't know if that makes sense or not, but I guess what I'm trying to ask is, actually, I don't really know what I'm trying to ask... these type of thoughts are all new to me

No, it is part of the reality not the reality itself. If it was we would be quite powerful conjurers.

 

[wuliheron]

No, it is part of the reality not the reality itself. If it was we would be quite powerful conjurers.

The author did not clarify the context of the question leaving it ambiguous, however, consensual reality is possibly what they are thinking of. Instead of each individual conjuring up reality it could be that there is a sort of collective unconscious agreement about what we want reality to be. It's totally speculative of course, but it certainly doesn't contradict quantum mechanics.

 

[DreadyPhysics]

Well, didn't Descartes say "Cognitos ergo sum" - I think, therefore I am? According to him, consciousness = reality.

Well, to be precise, Descartes definitely believed in an external, physical, "real" reality independent of our consciousness. He was a materialist in this sense.

A different school of thought, the idealists, holds that consciousness *is* reality and there is nothing outside of it. Berkeley made a fairly coherent argument for idealism. Whereas Descartes wrote "cogito ergo sum" (I think therefore I am), Berekely wrote "esse est percipi" (to be is to be perceived.) However, in order to recover a coherent, external reality, Berkeley had to posit an all-seeing God.

I recommend you read Berkeley's "treatise concerning the principles of human knowledge" to get a taste for the argument.

 

[Noja888]

I am reminded of that proverb "If a tree falls in the woods and no one can hear it - does it make a sound?" -Not to make light of the question at hand!

I like in quantum mechanics the uncertainty until a measurement is made. Consciousness is reality. Without the observer there is no reality. If you are not here (before you were born or after you are dead) is the universe still here? Like Einstein said - is it all relative to the observer?

 

[stevenb]

Well, to be precise, Descartes definitely believed in an external, physical, "real" reality independent of our consciousness.

...

I recommend you read Berkeley's "treatise concerning the principles of human knowledge" to get a taste for the argument.

Thanks for the clarification and the recommendation. I already get a taste for the argument from your comments, but it's still nice to know a good place to eat a full meal next time I'm hungry.

 

[Kentoro]

When I was a kid, I thought if I could not see it, it did not exist. That meant that everything behind me didn't exist until I turned my head and saw it. The senses open outwards. They are designed for a world that asks for a mirror to view ourselves. There is only one thing personal to you. Your thoughts. No one can make you give them, or know that you are thinking them. No truth serum. Torture doesn't always work. A poker face is great for manipulation to those that use body language as a tool for intuiting. I believe your reality will always be different from mine, there just isn't a way to accurately describe what my reality is like. Take a brick. I "know" what a brick feels like to me. I "know" what a brick sounds like when it hits pavement. I "know" what a brick feels like when it hits my foot. It is easy to fall into a trap, that because I "know" what a brick is to me that a brick is equal to what you "know" a brick to be. Definitely not true. As I hand you a brick, there is no way to tell what your skin feels. Therefore, the brick is different as it leaves my hand, into yours. Is it the brick that is different, or our perceptions of what a brick is that is different?
I need to go eat lol.