Is perpetual motion a forbidden topic in the scientific community?

In summary, perpetual motion is considered a forbidden topic in the scientific community due to its violation of the laws of thermodynamics. Scientists regard perpetual motion machines as impossible because they would require energy creation from nothing or the perpetual output of energy without input, contradicting fundamental principles of physics. While the concept can spark curiosity and creativity, any claims of perpetual motion are met with skepticism and are generally dismissed as unscientific.
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robotkid786
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TL;DR Summary
If perpetual motion is impossible doesn't that mean that the universe has a definite beginning and end?
I've only just clocked this to be the case. I asked chat gpt and the say big bang has a lot of merit apparently
 
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No. Supposed perpetual motion machines always lose energy to somewhere, which is why true perpetual motion machines are impossible. The universe is all there is - there is nowhere for it to lose energy to. So your analogy is flawed.

Do not trust large language models on physics. They are trained on the internet and there is way too much misinformation and not enough maths.
 
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robotkid786 said:
TL;DR Summary: If perpetual motion is impossible doesn't that mean that the universe has a definite beginning and end?
Huh? I think perhaps you misunderstand what a PMM is. Your statement is a non-sequitur.
robotkid786 said:
I've only just clocked this to be the case. I asked chat gpt and the say big bang has a lot of merit apparently
(1) Yes, but it only says that because it is true (although it is an understatement). You possibly don't really understand the Big Bang Theory either.
(2) Do NOT use ChatGPT as a reference here. The moderators have decided (rightly I think) that it's not appropriate. It makes too many mistakes.
 
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Thread locked pending moderation.
 
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robotkid786 said:
I asked chat gpt
ChatGPT is not a valid reference here.
 
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robotkid786 said:
TL;DR Summary: If perpetual motion is impossible doesn't that mean that the universe has a definite beginning and end?

I've only just clocked this to be the case. I asked chat gpt and the say big bang has a lot of merit apparently
PMMs are a forbidden topic at PF (for obvious reasons). Please follow the Insights Article link in the rules quote below for more information. This thread will remain closed.

PF Forbidden Topics said:
Pseudoscience, such as (but not limited to):
Perpetual motion and "free energy" discussions (see our Insights Article here)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
http://www.skepdic.com/freeenergy.html
http://www.skepdic.com/perpetual.html
 
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FAQ: Is perpetual motion a forbidden topic in the scientific community?

Is perpetual motion a forbidden topic in the scientific community?

Perpetual motion is not a forbidden topic in the scientific community, but it is widely regarded as impossible according to the current understanding of the laws of physics, particularly the first and second laws of thermodynamics. Scientists are open to discussing and exploring new ideas, but any claim of perpetual motion must be rigorously tested and validated.

Why is perpetual motion considered impossible by scientists?

Perpetual motion is considered impossible because it violates the first and second laws of thermodynamics. The first law, also known as the law of energy conservation, states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed. The second law states that entropy, or disorder, in an isolated system always increases over time. A perpetual motion machine would imply a system with no energy loss and no increase in entropy, which contradicts these fundamental principles.

Has anyone ever created a working perpetual motion machine?

Despite numerous claims and attempts throughout history, no one has ever created a working perpetual motion machine that has been validated by the scientific community. Many proposed designs either fail to work as intended or rely on hidden external energy sources, thereby disqualifying them as true perpetual motion machines.

Are there any ongoing research efforts related to perpetual motion?

While mainstream scientific research does not focus on perpetual motion machines due to the established laws of thermodynamics, there is ongoing research in related areas such as energy efficiency, renewable energy sources, and novel physical phenomena. These fields aim to improve energy utilization and discover new principles that could potentially revolutionize our understanding of physics, but they do not seek to achieve perpetual motion.

What should one do if they believe they have discovered a perpetual motion machine?

If someone believes they have discovered a perpetual motion machine, they should thoroughly document their findings and submit them for peer review in a reputable scientific journal. Independent verification and rigorous testing by the scientific community are essential to validate any such claim. It is important to approach this with a critical and open mind, understanding that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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