Is the Baltic Sea's Mysterious Object a Sunken UFO?

[Evo]

Ok, sorry. Do you want me to edit/delete my post? Edit: Edit: I've striked out the things which was supposed to be a joke.

 

[Dotini]

Those mighty, semi-serious Swedes are back at work again over their mystery object on the bottom of the Baltic. Soon we should all know more.
http://www.oceanexplorer.se/

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[DaveC426913]

Those mighty, semi-serious Swedes are back at work again over their mystery object on the bottom of the Baltic. Soon we should all know more.
http://www.oceanexplorer.se/

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

Really? Huh! I guess this isn't just another internet meme. I will watch with renewed interest.

 

[Dotini]

Doubts are emerging over the motives of the treasure hunters. Sponsorship by a reality TV show and suspicious documents fuel suspicions of a (gasp!) commercial scam. The Swedes, having returned to port over the weekend, presumably to refill their beer lockers, are once again returning to the scene of the crime, or gold-mine, or whatever it is. They promise the "truth", so suspicion naturally doubles. I'd post a link, but the whole thing is starting to smell like lutefisk.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[DennisN]

Doubts are emerging over the motives of the treasure hunters.

Yeah, I got that feeling too after reading the page submitted above. Treasure hunters, indeed . I've tried to find some more info regarding this thing on Swedish sites, but I've failed; I've found zero, nada, zilch. :(

 

[DaveC426913]

I joined the FB group, just so I would get updates.

Mostly it's people flaming them.

 

[Hepth]

Its a great idea to make some money, notice their first blog post this year.

2012-01-26

A commercial opportunity out of the ordinary.

Ocean X Team has found a disc shaped object on the sea floor at 85 meters depth, but what is it?
Well, we do not know but your company should really not miss the chance of being highlighted in front of hundreds of millions TV-viewers when we found out.

We are also looking for investors who are interested in the object and can see the potential value.
For more information about investment please contact us.

Seems like a get-rich-quick scheme.

 

[DaveC426913]

Its a great idea to make some money, notice their first blog post this year.



Seems like a get-rich-quick scheme.

As far as I'm concerned, it matters not whether they try to make a show about it - I am still curious as to what it is. Th only down-side I see is that we won't find that out till sweeps week...

I still say it's a sunken drill rig platform.

 

[Dotini]

Okay, I've seen the diver's video and read the brief report. It's an odd stone formation. Circular, but profiled something like a dome, or mushroom. It has what is said to be an egg shaped hole in the top, and covered with something like soot and has some smaller so far unexplained features. I'd link to the video but it's embedded in a sub PF standard website. Volcanism is said to be unknown in the area, but there's always a first time.

From the self-styled treasure hunter's website:
Treasure hunters confirm they have found something abnormal in the seabed

STOCKHOLM, Sweden, June 15, 2012

The Ocean X Team dove down to the circle-shaped object in the Baltic Sea and met something they never experienced before. First they thought it was just stone or a rock cliff, but after further observations the object appeared more as a huge mushroom, rising 3-4 meters/10-13 feet from the seabed, with rounded sides and rugged edges. The object had an egg shaped hole leading into it from the top, as an opening. On top of the object they also found strange stone circle formations, almost looking like small fireplaces. The stones were covered in something resembling soot.

“During my 20-year diving career, including 6000 dives, I have never seen anything like this. Normally stones don’t burn. I can’t explain what we saw, and I went down there to answer questions, but I came up with even more questions “, says Stefan Hogeborn, one of the divers at Ocean X Team.

The path to the object itself can be described as a runway or a downhill path that is flattened at the seabed with the object at the end of it.

“First we thought this was only stone, but this is something else. And since no volcanic activity has ever been reported in the Baltic Sea the find becomes even stranger. As laymen we can only speculate how this is made by nature, but this is the strangest thing I have ever experienced as a professional diver“, continues Peter Lindberg, one of the founder Ocean X Team.

Right now, scientists are examining samples from the circle-shaped object, and experts in sonar imaging are processing data from the ship to hopefully shed more light over the mysterious object.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

http://gizmodo.com/5918762/divers-explore-mysterious-spaceship+shaped-object-in-baltic-sea
Video and photos - incomplete.

http://www.openminds.tv/baltic-sea-ufo-divers-discover-something-abnormal-960/
Slightly better video in Swedish

Are we dealing with a scientific discovery - or a fraud?

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[JTB]

I expect this will be explained by geological effects by the receding ice sheet and water currents under the ice sheet, forming and depositing rocks and sediments. (Or something to that effect).

The feature that runs like a fault (as I understand it) up to this circular formation, may be due to ice weigth vanishing and land raising - breaking shallow rock?

 

[DaveC426913]

Are we dealing with a scientific discovery - or a fraud?

I'm comfortable ruling out fraud. The thing is there, it's a matter of interpretation.

I think the question is: are we dealing with something natural but unprecedented or something natural but mundane?

Now that sunken oil rig is almost ruled out, my next best theory is volcanic plug. (Though no volcanic activity has "ever" been recorded in the Baltic Sea, that doesn't mean there wasn't in the distant past.)

 

[AlephZero]

I think the question is: are we dealing with something natural but unprecedented or something natural but mundane?

A Google search for "erratic boulders" turned up this one, which isn't a million miles away:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letipea.

 

[Dotini]

I'm comfortable ruling out fraud. The thing is there, it's a matter of interpretation.

I like to think the best of people until proven otherwise. But it bothers me slightly that the photos are not obviously tied to the sonar scans.

I think the question is: are we dealing with something natural but unprecedented or something natural but mundane?

Now that sunken oil rig is almost ruled out, my next best theory is volcanic plug. (Though no volcanic activity has "ever" been recorded in the Baltic Sea, that doesn't mean there wasn't in the distant past.)

I'd like to hear of the lab analysis of the specimen rocks removed to the surface. There are indications that the object could also be a large meteorite. Don't forget that there are two objects, both with "tracks" leading to a common point.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[lisab]

I like to think the best of people until proven otherwise. But it bothers me slightly that the photos are not obviously tied to the sonar scans.



I'd like to hear of the lab analysis of the specimen rocks removed to the surface. There are indications that the object could also be a large meteorite. Don't forget that there are two objects, both with "tracks" leading to a common point.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

I'm not ruling out anything. I got an extra jolt of suspicion when I read,

The divers say that there is a 985-foot-long path that can be described "as a runway or a downhill path that is flattened at the seabed with the object at the end of it."

A runway? Really? A bit of "leading the witness".... Sounds like hype to me.

 

[Evo]

It's a runway now, eh?

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm not ruling out anything. I got an extra jolt of suspicion when I read,
A runway? Really? A bit of "leading the witness".... Sounds like hype to me.

Hype, absolutely. Fraud? No.

It may seem like splitting hairs, but there's a difference.

If this were a fraud, it would indicate that the evidence has been tampered with, and that there's likely nothing of interest here. I would dismiss it.

But there is something here that's of interest. I see no plausible way anyone could fake the evidence we've seen so far. So, they're free to make up any interpretation they want - I don't care - as long as they keep posting pictures.

The commentary is irrelevant to me.

I don't fall for the silly runway thing. But the depression does seem to be there, and that means it's a clue to the real nature of the thing.

My best bet is ancient volcanic plug.

 

[Hepth]

Is it fraud if you do an experiment, then while knowing the results, mislead people about what the results MIGHT be while withholding the actual results, all to make some money?

 

[DaveC426913]

Is it fraud if you do an experiment, then while knowing the results, mislead people about what the results MIGHT be while withholding the actual results, all to make some money?

Well, no. Fraud would require a claim, not a speculation.

The only results I see here are images and data. I don't know of any experiments they're doing, let alone any results they're claiming from them. But if they did falsify them, that would be fraud.

Any mildly-skeptical person will take any interpretations for what they're worth.

 

[Dotini]

"Fraud!" cried the maddened thousands, and the echo answered "Fraud!" (from Casey at the Bat, by Ernest Thayer)

This story continues to get more bizarre, instead of more straightforward. For instance, the treasure hunters are now making noises about potentially artificial walls, stone rings and even staircases on the object. There is even a hint of paranormal activity affecting their instruments. Really, the Ocean-X team are playing the X-Files card to the hilt, and maybe then some.

http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/news_europe/2012-06-20/mysterious-baltic-sea-object-raises-more-questions-.html <--Story as below with video

Ocean X team returns from their first expedition investigating the mysterious object they discovered in the Baltic Sea.

The expedition was supposed to provide answers, but instead yielded yet more questions.

It has also broadened the minds of those involved!

[Peter Lindberg, Treasure Hunter]:
“We have experienced things that I really couldn’t imagine and I have been the team's biggest skeptic regarding these different kind of theories. I was kind of prepared just to find a stone or cliff or outcrop or pile of mud but it was nothing like that, so for me it has been a missing experience I must say.”

The team were completely dwarfed by the mysterious object, which is about 60 meters in diameter and lying almost 80 meters down on the bottom of the Baltic Sea.

There are visible formations on top of the object, which are set at a 90 degree angle and look like passageways or walls, as well as something that looks like it could be a staircase.

The divers also found a hole about 25 centimeters in diameter, though it is not yet known where it leads.

In addition, they found circular forms of small rocks that appear to have been placed like a pearl necklace.

Geologists who follow their work haven´t been able to explain what it is yet.

Alongside the mystery, there were also many difficulties.

The most serious was the temperature of the water.

[Stefan Hogeborn, Professional Diver]:
“We looked at our dive computer, the deep sea diver computer, and it said minus one degree that’s pretty cold for a diver it should really be impossible to have that cold water it actually turns into ice at zero degrees but that could be explained by the movement of the water.”

Also, some strange phenomenon occurred…

A main objective of the dive was to film the object, and yet the camera stopped working when they approached the object.

[Stefan Hogerborn, Professional Diver]:
“Why isn’t anything working, anything electric out there and the satellite phone as well stopped working when we were above the object and then we got away about 200 meters and it turned on again and when we got back over the object it didn’t work so that’s kind of strange as well.”

Mr Hogerborn says he has never experienced anything like this during his 20 years as a professional diver.

Dennis Åsberg of the Ocean X team is one hundred percent sure after the first expedition that they have found something quite unusual.

[Dennis Åsberg, Treasure Hunter]:
“I am one hundred percent convinced and confident that we have found something that is very, very, very unique. Then if it is a meteorite or an asteroid or a volcano or a base from, say, a U-boat from the Cold War which has manufactured and placed there, yes, or if it's a UFO, well honestly it has to be something."

Lab results will be forthcoming, and a second expedition is already planned to depart in two weeks.

Ocean X team hope that a geology specialist will join the next expedition.

Cecilia Svensson, NTD News, Stockholm, Swedenhttp://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/06/18/swedish-scientists-reveal-findings-deep-sea-alien-hunt/
Even more odd for a seemingly natural formation, the main object is disc-shaped and “appears to have construction lines and boxes drawn on it,” Lindberg said. “There are also straight edges.”

Adding to the mystery, there appears to be a pillar which is holding up the 200 foot wide object, said Lindberg. “The pillar is eight meters high,” he added.
Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[DaveC426913]

Bah. Not one thing in there is concretely mysterious. A lot of little quirky things does not add up to one big mysterious thing; it adds up to pseudo-science publicity hype.

Still looking for a geological explanation. And still thinking that volcanic plug is the best fit. Even the pillar makes sense. Plug is harder rock than its substructure, so substructure is being eroded away, just like structures in Badlands USA.

 

[Dotini]

Dave is right. We need to know more about the geology of this place. Here's something of interest to start.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sea_level_temp_140ky.gif
This graphic indicates the sea level was 100 or more meters below current values over a period of time from about 15,000 to 25,000 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Sea
The Baltic Sea somewhat resembles a riverbed, with two tributaries, the Gulf of Finland and Gulf of Bothnia. Geological surveys show that before the Pleistocene instead of the Baltic Sea, there was a wide plain around a big river called the Eridanos. Several glaciation episodes during the Pleistocene scooped out the river bed into the sea basin. By the time of the last, or Eemian Stage (MIS 5e), the Eemian sea was in place. Instead of a true sea, the Baltic can even today also be understood as the common estuary of all rivers flowing into it.

Respectfully,
Steve

 

[DennisN]

I found one clip made just after they had found the anomaly (i.e. before investigations began; the language is in Swedish only, sorry).

http://www.aftonbladet.se/webbtv/nyheter/vetenskap/article13332962.ab[/PLAIN]


I have to say the interviewed guy sounded pretty professional about it to me, not speculative at all. Not much info in the clip; he said the object is about 60 meters in diameter, more or less completely circular, and that there are 300 meter long "tracks leading up to it/left behind by it", or whatever. He also said there have been many suggestions what it might be, e.g. algae (!), a meteorite or a geological feature.

Sadly, I am really lousy at both geology and geography; it's all rock, land and water to me :), so I have no clue whatsoever here, even though I am Swedish.

Well, actually I know one thing, I know that the Scandinavian Mountains are very, very old. Some geological info on this (in English):
http://www.scandinavianmountains.com/intro/geography.htm
Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Mountains

But, as I said, I have personally no clue whatsoever on this. I will try to find some more info on Swedish sites about this, if I find anything I'll let you know here.

 

[DennisN]

I found this article (June 20, Swedish only)
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/mysteriet-med-cirkeln-kan-vara-nazifalla/

Translated title: "The mystery circle might be a Nazi trap".

(The article summarized by me in short:)
The Ocean X Team diver Stefan Hogeborn says it's not unlikely that the object is a concrete construction used for trapping submarines. The Nazis apparently used these as foundations for huge steel nets which would deter/trap Soviet submarines.

I know what it's starting to sound like; UFOs, Nazis...:), but this is what the article says. Whether it's a trap or not is however not yet confirmed. But I don't think it sounds unlikely, or?

 

[DennisN]

Hi again. History and WW2 are two great interests of mine, I've read quite a lot about it. I know Germany experimented a lot with military technology, but I had never heard about employing steel nets to trap submarines. Therefore I did a search on the net about this (no pun intended). I didn't find much info on this regarding Germany, but I found two things;

1. A US article from 1941, describing a US development of steel net submarine traps:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1243&dat=19410807&id=OuUsAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NyEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1344,2848687

2. An article describing nets being employed against submarines (WW2):
http://ahoy.tk-jk.net/Underwater/26MidgetSubmarines.html

Quotes:
"X6, and X7 reached their target the "Tirpitz", and Lieutenant Cameron, in X6, dropped his charges, scuttled the boat, and he and his crew were taken prisoner. Lieutenant Place in X7, placed their explosives, then became entangled in German Anti-Submarine nets."

[...]

"The single Iine steel Anti-Torpedo net was supported between piles, the centre portion was complete, but there were large gaps at both East and West ends."

 

[AlephZero]

I know Germany experimented a lot with military technology, but I had never heard about employing steel nets to trap submarines.

The UK did that, for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humber_Forts

I suppose if something like that had been blown up by enemy action or sabotaged, there would be some foundations left. But there would also be some military records about it!

 

[melonkali]

Any possibility this could be related to the Saaremaa Island (Estonia) meteor event and Kaali crater?

 

[Dotini]

Okay, here is my explanation for the Baltic Mystery Object:

- About 100k years ago there was a natural fountain or spring at that location.

- Over the millennia, as the ancient rivers changed course and the glaciers came and went, the location was scoured and covered, but still the water (and/or gas) pushed up. Mud and sediment created an orifice or outflow artifact that solidified into the object.

- As the sea level raised, lowered and raised again, river flow and oceanic tides undercut the object, leaving the characteristic mushroom profile.

- As the sea level dropped around 18k years ago, the industrious Solutreans climbed it, dug a staircase, and left one or more hEarth's or other workings on top of the mound. The fountain would still be pushing out its liquids and gases, and perhaps the object was venerated or exploited.

- Water or other fluids are still coming out of one or more holes today.

Respectfully submitted, corrections and criticisms welcomed
Steve

 

[DennisN]

Update 9 July.
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/roboten-ska-losa-ostersjomysteriet/
(Swedish only, I provide a short summary below)

Translated title: "A robot will solve the Baltic Sea mystery."

It's mostly info about the robot submarine. Some info which might be of interest:

"The diver team will now be working for ten to twelve days. This time they have a robot and a sledgehammer with which they will try to extract a piece of the circle. They hope that analyses of a piece will give them better answers."

[...]

"This is what the circle looks like according to the divers

The circle looks almost like a concrete casting. At one place there is something which looks like a pearl necklace - or like someone have tried to make a fireplace with decimeter-sized rocks on the ocean floor. These rocks lie on top of the big circle.

The pictures taken by the divers show that the circle itself consists of multiple rocks shaped like buns or mushrooms which are connected to each other, forming the big circle.

The diameter of the object is approximately 60 meters.

In one place it looks like someone has pinched the side of the formation, like two shapes have been cast together and there is a rock pushed out between the shapes."

(not very good English, sorry, but it was pretty bad Swedish too , and I don't want to provide a false translation. Maybe the object in the Baltic Sea emits radiation which severly interferes with the language center in Swedish brains?)

 

[DennisN]

I didn't see this clip before when I was searching; it includes some video footage (15 June, Swedish only);
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/sa-ser-den-mystiska-cirkeln-ut-pa-nara-hall/[/PLAIN]

Translated title: "This is what the mysterious circle looks like at close range"

No more info than what I submitted above, so I won't translate it, but it is a good complement to the previous post. I think the object looks very much like it's made of concrete, actually. I will keep my eyes open for any news.

Edit 1:
Actually there was one piece of info in the article (translated by me);

"Expressen (the Swedish newspaper) let Martin Jakobsson, professor of marine geology and geophysics at Stockholm University, examine a picture from the divings.
- It is probably some kind of [strike]limestone[/strike] correction: sandstone. When you look at the structure it looks like it, he says."

Edit 2:
Same clip, larger size:
http://www.expressen.se/tv/nyheter/inrikes/exklusiva-bilder-fran-mysteriet-i-ostersjon/

 

[Evo]

Looks like a large rock. Thanks for the updates Dennis!

 

[HowlerMonkey]

Still think...

 

[DaveC426913]

Hey c'mon! Who flipped that Cylon Raider over on its back? Now it's just going to bake in the sun!