Is the EU truly richer than the US in terms of overall quality of life?

[Art]

Is certainly correct (and I'm a conservative), but I don't see how that relates to this thread. Are you saying that in general the free market results in higher prices? Power companies are a very special case - they must be government-regulated monopolies and couldn't function any other way. Even "deregulated", they aren't deregulated and the "competition" isn't real. All the deregulation did was make it easier for the monopolies to act like monopolies.

These days it's hard to think of any business sector that isn't dominated by a few big players and although economies of scale coupled with deregulation can lead to price reductions in the short term once a company's dominance in an area is established the desire to maximise profit becomes the prime motivator with a consequent increase in prices, less choice and less innovation.

Even in the EU with it's monopoly commissions and competition authorities the march towards ever bigger, more powerful, more dominant corporations continues inexorably as they squeeze their smaller competitors out of business and increase their market share.

 

[Dale]

Take the subprime mess. I don't know of any place in Europe or Japan where thousands of workers have been layed off from banks as in the US. Why ? I think it is a kind of cultural "superstructure" that is on top of the economy. The US has constant hire - fires, constant changes in companies, this provokes many moves, winners and losers etc.

I actually think it is the other way around. There is an economic "superstructure" that is on top of the culture. The American culture* respects hard work, ingenuity, talent, etc. and therefore the American economy rewards such. The American culture does not tolerate failure, poor-judgement, or incompetence. So the firing of the subprime lenders makes cultural sense.

*By "American culture" I am referring exclusively to so-called traditional American values. There is of course a wide variety of individual opinions and values, many sub-cultures, and gradual changes in generally-held beliefs and attitudes. The current cultural trend is away from "meritocracy" and towards "entitlement" as far as I can tell. The economic superstructure is following suit.

 

[russ_watters]

Take the subprime mess. I don't know of any place in Europe or Japan where thousands of workers have been layed off from banks as in the US. Why ? I think it is a kind of cultural "superstructure" that is on top of the economy. The US has constant hire - fires, constant changes in companies, this provokes many moves, winners and losers etc. This actually contributes somewhat to the GDP.

The subprime mess is a special case, but otherwise, yes, turnover is an economic driver in the US.

But if you look at Japan and the EU, they have a GDP that is not too far behind that of the US but without so much turmoil and stress on the individual workers as in the US. Why ?

I don't know about that - the US has a lower unemployment rate than most of the rest of the industrialized world. So that makes it easier to find another job if you choose to or have to. And turmoil? What do you call this?:

Commenting other demonstrations in Paris a few months later, the BBC summarized reasons behind the events included youth unemployment and lack of opportunities in France's poorest communities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_civil_unrest_in_France

France is having rioting problems again right now and the general problem of absurdly high youth unemployment is a long-term problem.

And stress? Japan? Japan practically invented job-related stress! (and you know that as you discuss below)

I read that the Japanese tried to imitate the american style of meritocracy amongst workers, the better and more skilled worker gets ahead, the others are left behind etc. for some time but found it "unsatisfying". It didn't make their country richer but just created more stress and conflict between workers. They reverted back to their traditional heirarchy salary man (aka "slave") model with the guys showing their presence in the office until 10:00 pm without actually producing anything. The fact is it didn't change anything, either way. Now that is interesting, how economies reach the same level of wealth independently of the way the workers "act".

Japan was unable to duplicate the American workforce's culture. I don't know why it caused them so much stress, but that isn't the way it works here.

oldtobor, again, you are just making things up and saying things that sound good in your head. Virtually nothing that you have said in this entire thread, much less this post, has anything to do with reality. This isn't rocket science. If you have an idea, google it. Find out if it is a reality or if it is just something that sounds good in your head.

 

[oldtobor]

I actually think it is the other way around. There is an economic "superstructure" that is on top of the culture. The American culture* respects hard work, ingenuity, talent, etc. and therefore the American economy rewards such. The American culture does not tolerate failure, poor-judgement, or incompetence. So the firing of the subprime lenders makes cultural sense.

*By "American culture" I am referring exclusively to so-called traditional American values. There is of course a wide variety of individual opinions and values, many sub-cultures, and gradual changes in generally-held beliefs and attitudes. The current cultural trend is away from "meritocracy" and towards "entitlement" as far as I can tell. The economic superstructure is following suit.

The lenders would have been fired if they didn't follow the subprime loaning bandwagon. They were pressured and forced into doing it, and anyways a lot of workers who have nothing to do with it have been layed off because any excuse is good to have the occasional massive layoff (like after 911, anyone remember ?).

Actually the US accepts failure a lot more than EU or Japan, the US is based on try again, you have another chance, keep on trying even if you fail many times it is OK. This is one of the real great strengths of the US culture compared to EU and Japan where failure is equal to complete doom. And this probably determines why the hire - fire system is not such a problem in the US as perceived in Japan and EU. If you are fired try again in another company, open a business etc. In EU or Japan being fired is like being doomed.

So yes, the US has many cultural advantages, but the economy (both US and World) is more and more a self referential fight between each other, lawyers against hospitals against insurances etc. trying to squeeze out more and more from a pie that is not growing anymore and creates conflicts between people.

 

[Dale]

The lenders would have been fired if they didn't follow the subprime loaning bandwagon. They were pressured and forced into doing it,

You are undoubtedly correct here about the pressure from management to make bad loans and about the likelyhood of being fired otherwise, but you are not correct about being forced into doing it. As you have already mentioned job turnover is high. In the US, if you choose to stay in a company that is pressuring you into doing something then you are deliberately supporting that behavior. You cannot absolve the workers of complicity. In any case, those organizations where that is true are the ones that will probably go out of business. In a sense, the whole organization is being "fired" from top to bottom.

Actually the US accepts failure a lot more than EU or Japan, the US is based on try again, you have another chance, keep on trying even if you fail many times it is OK. This is one of the real great strengths of the US culture compared to EU and Japan where failure is equal to complete doom. And this probably determines why the hire - fire system is not such a problem in the US as perceived in Japan and EU. If you are fired try again in another company, open a business etc. In EU or Japan being fired is like being doomed.

You are correct. This is a very good point, one that I hadn't considered completely. I guess persistence and optimisim should have been on my list of rewarded behaviors. I still think we don't tolerate failure and incompetence, i.e. you easily get fired or go out of business, but your point is that in the US failure and incompetence can be somehow temporary states.

trying to squeeze out more and more from a pie that is not growing anymore

I assume that you realize that this statement is completely false. I hope you were actually trying to claim something like "the pie is not growing as fast as it once did" and just said it this way for exaggeration or dramatic effect. If you really believe it then this discussion is in trouble.