Is the magnetic field from this current rotationally symmetric?

In summary, the question evaluates whether the magnetic field produced by a current is uniformly distributed around a central axis, indicating rotational symmetry. If the current flows in a way that creates a consistent pattern of magnetic field lines in all directions from the axis, then the field is considered rotationally symmetric. Analyzing the geometry of the current and its configuration is essential in determining this symmetry.
  • #1
Trollfaz
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14
Imagine a very large disc with current converging to it's center as $$ I=- \frac{k}{r} \hat{r}$$
Obviously ##\theta## is absent in the equation so the magnetic field by this current should look the same no matter which angle one is observing. Then does this mean that the magnetic field is dependent on r and exists as circles (anticlockwise above the disc, clockwise below the disc) and weakens with r under Biot Savart Law
 
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  • #2
Your current density violates conservation of charge, which follows directly from Maxwell’s equations.
 
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  • #3
Conservation of charge is only true if the system is isolated entirely but this can be maintained by external sources constantly inputting or withdrawing charges
 
  • #4
Trollfaz said:
Conservation of charge is only true if the system is isolated entirely but this can be maintained by external sources constantly inputting or withdrawing charges
When I say conservation of charge I refer to the continuity equation for charge. This is a local statement and your setup is violating it.
 
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  • #5
Trollfaz said:
Conservation of charge is only true if the system is isolated entirely but this can be maintained by external sources constantly inputting or withdrawing charges
That inputting or withdrawing charge is a current.

The conservation of charge follows from Maxwell’s equations. If it is violated then Maxwell’s equations do not hold. Without them is there even a magnetic field at all? Certainly Biot Savart would not apply either.
 
  • #6
This reminds me of "Can God create a stone so heavy he can't lift it?"

Asking what Maxwell's equations say for a system that violates them (and of course, cannot be physically realized) is pointless. Some would use other adjectives.
 
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  • #7
First of all a current is a scalar. What you seem to mean is a current density. Now you write
$$\vec{j}=-\frac{k}{r} \hat{r}.$$
This is obviously a stationary current density, and thus you should have ##\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{j}=0##, but for your field
$$\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{j} = -\frac{k}{r^2} \neq 0,$$
i.e., there's no solution for the magnetostatics problem,
$$\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{B} = \mu_0 \vec{j}.$$
Maxwell's equations in general are only solvable, when the electromagnetic charge is conserved, i.e., if the continuity equation,
$$\partial_t \rho + \vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{j}=0,$$
holds. This "integrability condition" follows from the gauge invariance of Maxwell's theory.
 
  • #8
vanhees71 said:
This is obviously a stationary current density, and thus you should have ∇→⋅j→=0, but for your field
∇→⋅j→=−kr2≠0,
i.e
This would be true in spherical coordinates. However, the OP is referring to a disc, which implies ##r## should probably be interpreted as the cylinder coordinate radius. If so, ##\nabla\cdot\vec j=0## everywhere … except in ##r=0##, where it is not.
 
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  • #9
Well, ill-defined problems can lead easily to misunderstandings. So what's meant then seems to be
$$\vec{j}=-\frac{k}{R} \hat{R} \delta(z),$$
where ##(R,\varphi,z)## are cylinder coordinates. That also obviously violates ##\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{j}=0## ;-)).
 
  • #10
vanhees71 said:
Well, ill-defined problems can lead easily to misunderstandings. So what's meant then seems to be
$$\vec{j}=-\frac{k}{R} \hat{R} \delta(z),$$
where ##(R,\varphi,z)## are cylinder coordinates. That also obviously violates ##\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{j}=0## ;-)).
Not as obvious as you might think. The only violation occurs in R=0 where the coordinates are singular. Since the delta function depends only on z, it will not contribute to any divergence. The divergence becomes ##[\partial_R(-k\delta(z))]/R = 0## for ##R>0##. It takes an additional argument to conclude the non-zero divergence at the origin so I’m not sure I would call it obvious.
 
  • #11
So the Biot Savart Law and Ampere's law only applies to steady current. Is the definition of a steady current one that results in no charge to the system
 
  • #12
Time independent and ##\nabla\cdot\vec j =0##, which leads to no charge accumulation. Somewhat simplified: charge accumulation would mean a changing charge, which would mean a changing E field, which would give additional contributions to the B field.
 
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  • #13
Orodruin said:
Not as obvious as you might think. The only violation occurs in R=0 where the coordinates are singular. Since the delta function depends only on z, it will not contribute to any divergence. The divergence becomes ##[\partial_R(-k\delta(z))]/R = 0## for ##R>0##. It takes an additional argument to conclude the non-zero divergence at the origin so I’m not sure I would call it obvious.
To see what happens at ##R=0## let's integrate over an arbitrary collinear cylinder ##Z## of radius ##a##. You formally get
$$\int_Z \mathrm{d}^3 x \vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{j} = \int_{\partial Z} \mathrm{d}^2 \vec{f} \cdot \vec{j}.$$
The bottom and top circles don't contribute, and the mantle area element normal vector is ##\mathrm{d}^2 \vec{f}=a \hat{R} \mathrm{d} \varphi \mathrm{d} z##:
$$\int_{M} \mathrm{d}^2 \vec{f} \cdot \vec{j}=\int_{0}^{2 \pi} \mathrm{d} \varphi \int_{-h/2}^{h/2} \mathrm{d} z a (-k/a) \delta(z)=-2 \pi k \neq 0.$$
So, as is also intuitively obvious, the singularity is such that there is a non-zero current, leading to an accumulation of charge at the center of the disk. I'm a bit lost at the task to find the electromagnetic fields. You have to assume some singular time-dependent charge density to get the charge conservation right...
 

FAQ: Is the magnetic field from this current rotationally symmetric?

Is the magnetic field from this current rotationally symmetric?

It depends on the configuration of the current. For example, the magnetic field generated by a current flowing through a straight wire is not rotationally symmetric, but the field generated by a current in a circular loop or a solenoid can exhibit rotational symmetry around the axis of the loop or solenoid.

What determines the rotational symmetry of a magnetic field?

The rotational symmetry of a magnetic field is determined by the geometry and distribution of the current that generates it. Symmetrical current distributions, such as those in circular loops or coaxial cables, tend to produce rotationally symmetric magnetic fields.

How can we verify if a magnetic field is rotationally symmetric?

To verify if a magnetic field is rotationally symmetric, one can use mathematical tools like Ampère's Law or the Biot-Savart Law to calculate the field. Additionally, experimental techniques like mapping the magnetic field with a Hall probe or using magnetic field sensors can help visualize the symmetry.

Are there practical applications where rotationally symmetric magnetic fields are important?

Yes, rotationally symmetric magnetic fields are crucial in many applications, such as in the design of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) machines, particle accelerators, and inductive components like transformers and inductors, where uniform magnetic fields are often required.

Can the presence of a magnetic material affect the rotational symmetry of a magnetic field?

Yes, the presence of magnetic materials can distort the magnetic field and affect its symmetry. Magnetic materials can concentrate or redirect magnetic field lines, which can break the rotational symmetry unless the material itself is symmetrically distributed.

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