Is the Math/Science Taught at MIT, Caltech, etc. Harder?

[jack476]

I'm currently in community college and will be transferring to a 4-year university hopefully in 2016. I'm wondering if the math and sciences taught at "big name" or "elite" colleges, such as MIT, Caltech, Princeton, Harvard, etc., are harder or more advanced than those same subjects taught at non-elite schools?

I'm not at all suggesting that I will be transferring to one of these elite schools (I don't know where I'll be going yet). But I'm simply wondering about this topic, as someone who attends a community college and has heard it said before that our classes are "inferior" to those of "real" colleges. I'm wondering about whether there is this gap in expectations generally and, if so, how big that gap is between various academic institutions.

Thanks.

Yes and no.

Yes, more is expected from the students, the students are often more hardworking and more ambitious.

More significantly though, no, because physics is physics and that's not going to change between two institutions. Kinematics will still be kinematics, electricity will still be electricity, calculus will still be calculus. Students from big name schools go on to do well because those schools only admit the most ambitious and most capable students, those with the most potential. And many students go in in the first place having been exposed to college-level content, if not in the form of AP exams then possibly dual-credit courses.

It's academically harder, more homework and more expectations and geared towards a higher caliber of student, but the material is not any more difficult.

That said, that should not be taken to mean that the education is "better" at those schools. If you want to go to such a school, go for the opportunity to meet like-minded students or to learn from some of the best professors in the world, not because you heard that CalTech = smart. You can easily go far at a less well-known school if you try.

 

[TMFKAN64]

The 100m dash is the 100m dash. It's something almost anyone can do.

Just not in under 10 seconds.

 

[WWGD]

<Snip>

. If you want to go to such a school, go for the opportunity to meet like-minded students or to learn from some of the best professors in the world, not because you heard that CalTech = smart. You can easily go far at a less well-known school if you try.

I think there is no clear correlation between being a good researcher and being a good professor. Big schools don't hire people who are good teachers; they hire good researchers. And schools that are "less demanding" give you the option of pacing yourself and setting your own agenda to a greater degree. Pushing yourself more does not imply learning more nor learning better. Only real/significant difference may be funding: being able to study without having to worry about supporting yourself, etc.

 

[bballwaterboy]

There are exceptions. When I was a professor at Central Washington state college, I wanted to provide the best opportunity to my top students, so I taught an extra calculus class from Mike Spivak's book to the few who could handle it. I taught it free so my department did not mind that it only had three or four students. We went from that into Spivak's Differential Geometry as a seminar, and those students, and several faculty who attended, learned a lot.

Greetings, again, everyone. Was just perusing through this older thread and wanted to ask about these books by Mike Spivak having seen them mentioned several times. First, which Calculus book by Spivak are you referring to mathwonk? I'd be interested in checking it out. You've really piqued my curiosity.

And, secondly, what makes Spivak's math books difficult for students? Thanks so much!

 

[bballwaterboy]

re: Jack476 (Apologies. I can't seem to quote your message above in the reply box - the quote button seemed to have disappeared.)

That's a good perspective. One thing I had thought of as well is that the tests may be potentially harder at these schools.

But, I appreciate the well-reasoned view you've offered as well.

 

[jtbell]

wanted to ask about these books by Mike Spivak having seen them mentioned several times.

Plenty of discussion of Spivak down the hall in the Science & Math Textbooks forum, as shown by a search restricted to that forum:

https://www.physicsforums.com/search/512653/?q=spivak&t=post&o=relevance&g=1&c[node]=21

Have fun browsing!

I've never read Spivak myself, being a mere physicist rather than a mathematician, but I've seen it mentioned here plenty of times.

 

[HuskyNamedNala]

Not all schools are created equal, this is true. I went to a high ranking small research university for undergrad and got a lot more out of my education than my friends who went to lower tier schools. I also have a stronger network. At the very least you can objectively look at your required classes for your major at respective programs. My program, for instance, had some high caliber class requirements compared to a few of my friends who had to take 2 semesters worth of "electives" (If you consider The History of Rock and Roll an appropriate class for a CS major elective. He also did not have to take anything about calc II).

At the same time:
I worked very hard and I was passionate about what I was learning. There were a good fraction of slackers who got by leaching off the "smart" kids. I went to graduate school at a lower tier university because I thought funding was secure (it wasn't, but that's another issue) and I noticed the distribution of students who took their education seriously was much lower than in my undergrad. They had a lot more money and a much more beautiful campus/location, but I hated working amongst people who didn't seem to take their work seriously. I left that university and haven't since return to grad school. Because of that move and going to a good undergraduate school I have 60 grand in debt. Financially, it wasn't a good idea.

That said, prestige doesn't matter because whoever is holding the most money ultimately gets what accolades they want, regardless of how good they actually are.

Please consider the following:
*Does the university I want to attend have a broad scope of classes or offer classes I am confident I would like to take and am interested in?
*Will I get a good financial aid package...IE minimize my loan expenditure?
*Are there extracurricular clubs relevant to my major?
Visit the school!
Visit the school!
again, visit the school!
And ask yourself
*Did I feel like I connected with the students? Was it easy to get on the same page, converse, socialize, etc?
*Did I get a good vibe? Could I see myself doing well at this institution?
*Did I like the professors I met? Did they seem happy?
*Did the students throughout the campus seem happy? Did I "like the crowd"?