Is the Taiji Dolphin Hunt Justified?

[Greg Bernhardt]

250 dolphins await slaughter, lifetime of captivity at Japan's Taiji Cove
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/18/world/asia/japan-dolphin-hunt/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

If anyone has seen the documentry "The Cove" they will be well versed in this practice. Truly horrible.

"Taiji dolphin fishermen are just conducting a legal fishing activity in their traditional way in full accordance with regulations and rules under the supervision of both the national and the prefectural governments. Therefore, we believe there are no reasons to criticize the Taiji dolphin fishery."

What a crock of crap. Just because it's legal and traditional doesn't make it moral.

 

[Evo]

Can't read this, too upsetting. The lack of care about life of some cultures is just too offensive to me. Tradition in hunting means that old ways should be abandoned for more humane and beneficial methods. We stopped sacrifices a long time ago for good reason.

 

[Tobias Funke]

Making it about "some cultures" vs. "we" isn't exactly fair though.

**Annoying internet guy playing devil's advocate alert**

We slaughter plenty of cows over here, our circuses terribly abuse their animals, and Greg recently made a thread about animals in captivity at Seaworld (somebody must be buying the dolphins from the Japanese...). We're so good at not caring about life that we can spin a story about hunting rhinos for sport into a positive thing.

 

[russ_watters]

Though I vaguely remember hearing of this annual event before, at face value I see zero in the article of real concern except for CNN's shockingly poor judgement in essentially forwarding an eco-terrorist organization's press release as if it were a news story. Absolutely everything in the article except for the non sequitur on whale hunting is sensationalism of what could otherwise be mundane fishing and capture operations.

Yes, we kill and eat dolphins.
Yes, we capture dolphins and put them in zoos.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Russ watch "The Cove".

 

[russ_watters]

I've put it in my Netflix que, however I really shouldn't have to watch it as a prerequisite for participating in this thread. If there is something unseemly going on in The Cove it shouldn't take watching a 90 minute video to convey it. The article should be able to convey it itself.

 

[Enigman]

Russ watch "The Cove".

I read the synopsis in the wiki but the documentary doesn't seem to change the bottom line...
How is this any different from salmon farming in the US? There was 1,433,708 tons of atlantic salmon harvested in '07 -compared to 250 dolphin it does seem a rather large number...moreover salmon farming does create significant ecological issues.
So my question would be has this practice done anything to affect the ecosystem? The only relevant objection seems to be the mercury levels in the meat...

 

[stevenjones3.1]

So my question would be has this practice done anything to affect the ecosystem? The only relevant objection seems to be the mercury levels in the meat...

Well, you know that and the fact that dolphins are a *LOT* smarter than salmon.

(and for the record I am a proponent of hunting)

 

[jobyts]

Pigs are one of the smarter animals too. We still kill them.

 

[stevenjones3.1]

Have you ever had dolphin? It is nowhere near as delicious as bacon.

 

[edward]

Getting down to the bare bones facts the Taiji dolphin kill is all about money. According to the town history the so called tradition only goes back forty five years.

In their letter to WAZA–citing a history of Taiji published by the town in 1979–the three conservation groups challenge that concern, along with the idea that the Taiji hunt is a longstanding historical and cultural practice: “[T]he first recorded dolphin drive was in 1933, with subsequent hunts occurring in 1936 and 1944. It was not until 1969 that dolphin drives have been conducted on a large scale. The history of the dolphin drives spans not so-called 400 years, but a mere 45

http://newswatch.nationalgeographic...uts-spotlight-on-changing-economics-of-hunts/

 

[russ_watters]

Have you ever had dolphin? It is nowhere near as delicious as bacon.

No, but I've heard that. And they're cuter! (though teacup pigs are pretty cute too).

 

[russ_watters]

Getting down to the bare bones facts the Taiji dolphin kill is all about money.

Well of course it is! These days very little fishing is done for food* and those who fish as a hobby often just do it for fun and don't eat what they catch.

*By which I mean the people catching the fish don't eat the fish, they sell them.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I don't believe dolphins are fish

 

[russ_watters]

I don't believe dolphins are fish

Neither are pigs, but both are food, pets and service animals. That's why I'm struggling to find something wrong with the capture and killing of dolphins.

I don't think it is relevant to the issue to nitpick the use of the term "fishing" as a description of how you catch dolphins, but honestly I have no idea what the appropriate word is.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I guess this is going to turn into where do you cross the line? Do you think there is one? Is anything but humans open game?

 

[OmCheeto]

...
What a crock of crap. Just because it's legal and traditional doesn't make it moral.

I concur.

I would expand on this, but it's time for bed.

 

[Pattonias]

Is the problem killing dolphins, or how they are killed? If they were lined up in a chute and killed quickly with a blow to the head one by one, would people be less upset?

I have a problem with killing dolphins just like I have a problem with killing dogs. If the process was more humane (e.g. less violent) I would have to allow them to continue. My problem is with the methods they are using. I don't have a problem with them eating dolphins just like some cultures eat dog. I just know that I personally would not kill and eat dolphins.

 

[Enigman]

Is the problem killing dolphins, or how they are killed? If they were lined up in a chute and killed quickly with a blow to the head one by one, would people be less upset?

I have a problem with killing dolphins just like I have a problem with killing dogs. If the process was more humane (e.g. less violent) I would have to allow them to continue. My problem is with the methods they are using. I don't have a problem with them eating dolphins just like some cultures eat dog. I just know that I personally would not kill and eat dolphins.

The wiki article says:
The following day, fishermen enter the bay in small boats, and the dolphins are caught one at a time and killed. The primary method of dispatch was for a long time to cut the dolphin's throat, severing blood vessels, and death was due to exsanguination. However, the government banned this method and now the officially sanctioned method requires that a metal pin be driven into the cervical region ("neck") of the dolphin, severing its brainstem, which causes it to die within seconds, according to a memo from Senzo Uchida, the executive secretary of the Japan Cetacean Conference on Zoological Gardens and Aquariums*

*Relevant citation:
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/oct2005/2005-10-07-06.asp

 

[Pattonias]

The wiki article says:
The following day, fishermen enter the bay in small boats, and the dolphins are caught one at a time and killed. The primary method of dispatch was for a long time to cut the dolphin's throat, severing blood vessels, and death was due to exsanguination. However, the government banned this method and now the officially sanctioned method requires that a metal pin be driven into the cervical region ("neck") of the dolphin, severing its brainstem, which causes it to die within seconds, according to a memo from Senzo Uchida, the executive secretary of the Japan Cetacean Conference on Zoological Gardens and Aquariums*

*Relevant citation:
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/oct2005/2005-10-07-06.asp

Honestly, If they are doing what they can to reduce the suffering of the animals, then I can not pass judgement. I would rather they didn't, but I am not going to remain a meat eater and criticize what they are doing.

 

[Evo]

OMG, just saw footage on tv, they herded so many dolphins into a small area that they were like sardines in a can, they were out of the water they were packed so tightly, then they proceeded to drive boats repeatedly into the dolphins, chopping and tearing them apart with the boats, blood appearing in the water.

 

[edward]

The wiki article says:
The following day, fishermen enter the bay in small boats, and the dolphins are caught one at a time and killed. The primary method of dispatch was for a long time to cut the dolphin's throat, severing blood vessels, and death was due to exsanguination. However, the government banned this method and now the officially sanctioned method requires that a metal pin be driven into the cervical region ("neck") of the dolphin, severing its brainstem, which causes it to die within seconds, according to a memo from Senzo Uchida, the executive secretary of the Japan Cetacean Conference on Zoological Gardens and Aquariums*

*Relevant citation:
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/oct2005/2005-10-07-06.asp

Ultimately, blood loss induces first paraplegia and later death, says the report. The process is prolonged by inserting a wooden peg into the wound, which Iwasaki and Kai said was done to prevent water contamination and to conserve the blood for commercial use.

http://www.newscientist.com/article...illing-dolphins-is-inhumane.html#.UuBvUmfn8fQ

This method too has come into question. BTW after the rod is removed from the point where it entered a wooden plug is inserted to keep blood out of the water.

The method employed — impaling the dolphins behind the blowhole to sever the spinal cord — seemed barbaric, but, according to a paper by Japanese researchers, it is more humane than the more random hurling of harpoons from boats employed previously in Taiji’s drive hunts.

Now, a new study by scientists in Britain and the U.S. rebuts those claims. “Our analysis shows that this method does not fulfill the internationally recognized requirement for immediacy,” said University of Bristol Veterinary School professor Andrew Butterworth, lead author of the paper. “It would not be tolerated or permitted in any regulated slaughterhouse process in the developed world.”

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/04/16/national/taiji-dolphin-cull-inhumane-study/#.UuBtNmfn8fQ

Edited

 

[russ_watters]

While on an emotional level I prefer more "humane" killing methods, logically it is still difficult to justify:

1. Nature is violent and the difference in killing method is a difference in us, not in them. In other words, logically I don't see a difference between them experiencing a violent death at my hand or the hand of a shark.

2. Humans still employ plenty of plenty violent killing methods for higher-level (more intelligent) beings. Indeed, I've heard contradictory judgement on what constitutes "humane". For example, bow hunting. Humane or inhumane? Is it less humane because it typically takes longer to die than shooting the animal with a gun or more humane because it gives the animal better odds of avoiding being shot?

The point on dogs also shows our emotional hypocrisy: people cringe at dog and cat killing and eating because we keep them as pets. But they are not higher level beings than other mammals that we do eat.

In fact, I find it ironic that this is an issue for dolphins: much of our emotional attachment to them is based on their being held in captivity for our entertainment - capturing dolphins for which is part of what is being criticized. Of course, the same is true of dogs.

 

[russ_watters]

I guess this is going to turn into where do you cross the line?

Yes. Clearly for everyone the line is different - if it even exists, and that's what this is about. I daresay the line for those who are the source of the article is almost certainly a very long way from yours.

Do you think there is one? Is anything but humans open game?

I'm not without emotions and I struggle with the question because of that, but I don't really know the answer. I suppose I would have to say that yes there is a line for me, but it is extremely poorly defined and I recognize that it almost certainly has zero basis in logic - even as I try my hardest to apply logic to it.

I will say though that my logical approach apparently enables me to overcome the conflicted, contradictory feelings many people have. A quick story:

When I was at the Naval Academy, we had mice - every big, old building does - so we had mousetraps. We caught a mouse in a sticky-trap. Alive. I didn't pick the type of trap and am against them*. A group of 10 or 20 of us saw it. Mind you, these are people who know they are taking a job that may require them to kill people or send people to die. No one could bring themselves to kill the mouse despite the fact that everyone agreed that it would die, agreed it should be killed quickly to make it suffer for less time and agreed with setting the trap in the first place -- except me. I killed the mouse by drowning it in the sink.

My mother, on the other hand, grew up on a farm and used to kill rats sitting in the rafters of a barn by grabbing their hanging tails, yanking them off the rafters and slamming them into the ground. And thought nothing of buying a pellet gun to kill rabbits eating her garden (not that she was a good shot or that the pellet gun actually could kill them...).

*Yes, in general, I believe in applying the least pain possible when killing, but as I explained in the posts above, this is only to settle my emotions. It has no basis in logic and suspect my compassion would be lost on the mouse.

 

[Czcibor]

I guess this is going to turn into where do you cross the line? Do you think there is one? Is anything but humans open game?

What about accepting only killing those animals that in our culture are typically slaughtered, and look down at all other cultures that have different tastes or traditions? ;)

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

So cannibal tribes are ok?

 

[julcab12]

So cannibal tribes are ok?

We can't really draw any line between subjective arguments.

I can only assume the answer is sustainability IMO.
Nature has a way of maintaining some sort of equilibrium even w/out us interfering that much.

It's such a waste killing huge amount of poor dolphins just bec of senseless culture especially competition for fishing!? We are better than that.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Stop the Taiji Dolphin Hunt! http://cnn.it/1rbFHiW