Lagrangian and Euler-Lagrange Equation Problem

In summary, the conversation discusses a problem involving a body on a smooth, frictionless plane being lifted at a constant rate and the need to show the Lagrangian of the body expressed in terms of its distance from the base of the plane. The individual is struggling with finding the kinetic and potential energies and determining the Euler-Lagrange equations for the system. Through hints and examples, the individual is able to make progress and ultimately presents their answer for the Euler-Lagrange equation.
  • #1
Yeah Way
5
0
First off, apologies if this is in the wrong forum, if my notation is terrible, or any other signs of noobishness. I just started university and I'm having a hard time with my first Lagrange problems. Help would be very much appreciated.

1. Homework Statement

A body of mass m is lying on a smooth, frictionless plane. The plane, which is originally horizontal, is lifted up at one end at a constant rate such that the angle of the plane with the horizontal at time t is θ = at.
This problem comes with a diagram which includes an arrow pointing down labled g. I presume this is a constant force g from gravity?

Homework Equations


I need to show that the lagrangian of the body, expressed in terms of the distance q from the base of the plane where it hits the horizontal, is
L = 1/2(mqdot^2) + 1/2(ma^2q^2) - mgqsin(at)

Also, determine the Euler-Lagrange equations for the system


The Attempt at a Solution


I understand that L = T - V and T = 1/2(mqdot^2), V = 1/2(kq^2); but after that, I'm just not sure what to do to make it look like it's presented in the problem. I'm not even sure what k should be for V. ma^2 ? If so, could someone explain why?

Thank you very much for reading.
 
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  • #2
Hint: The ma^2 term does not come from the potential energy.
 
  • #3
Orodruin said:
Hint: The ma^2 term does not come from the potential energy.
Thank you very much! Thanks to the hint, I was able to get somewhere during my break at work today.
So, I think I've worked out that the 1/2(mqdot^2) is the kinetic energy from the ball moving along the surface and the 1/2(ma^2q^2) is from the ball being moved upwards as the slope rises.

Since I'm working with gravity, V is obviously just mgh! xD So yeah, I've figured that part out too.

All I need to do now is find a nice way to express how I know what the kinetic energy is. Could you please give me an example?
 
  • #4
Yeah Way said:
Thank you very much! Thanks to the hint, I was able to get somewhere during my break at work today.
So, I think I've worked out that the 1/2(mqdot^2) is the kinetic energy from the ball moving along the surface and the 1/2(ma^2q^2) is from the ball being moved upwards as the slope rises.

Since I'm working with gravity, V is obviously just mgh! xD So yeah, I've figured that part out too.

All I need to do now is find a nice way to express how I know what the kinetic energy is. Could you please give me an example?
If ##\vec{v}_1## and ##\vec{v}_2## are the velocity components along two perpendicular directions ##\vec{d}_1## and ##\vec{d}_2##, then isn't the kinetic energy just equal to
[tex] \text{K.E.} = \frac{1}{2} m \left( \vec{v}_1 \cdot \vec{v}_1 + \vec{v}_2 \cdot \vec{v}_2 \right) ? [/tex]

You can get convenient perpendicular components by looking at the positions of the particle at two nearby times ##t## and ##t + \Delta t##, as shown in the attached figure.
 

Attachments

  • Sept26PFfig.pdf
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  • #5
Ray Vickson said:
You can get convenient perpendicular components by looking at the positions of the particle at two nearby times tt and t+Δtt + \Delta t, as shown in the attached figure.
I think the easiest way is to simply consider polar coordinates in the plane of rotation. The rotation then implies a constraint ##\theta = at## on the angle.
 
  • #6
Part two of the question asks me to find the Euler-Lagrange Equation of motion of the mass. I'll just put up my answer here and if one of you could please tell me if I'm right or off the mark, I'd be grateful. Once again, thanks for all the help so far.

mqdoubledot + mgSinat - ma^2q = 0
 

1. What is a Lagrangian?

A Lagrangian is a function that represents the difference between kinetic and potential energy in a physical system. It is commonly denoted as L and is used to calculate the equations of motion for a system.

2. What is the Euler-Lagrange equation?

The Euler-Lagrange equation is a mathematical expression that describes the motion of a system in terms of the Lagrangian. It is derived from the principle of least action, which states that the actual path taken by a system is the one that minimizes the action, a quantity determined by the Lagrangian.

3. How is the Euler-Lagrange equation used?

The Euler-Lagrange equation is used to find the equations of motion for a physical system by minimizing the action of the system. These equations can then be solved to determine the trajectory and behavior of the system over time.

4. What is the significance of the Euler-Lagrange equation in physics?

The Euler-Lagrange equation is a fundamental tool in classical mechanics and is used to describe the behavior of a wide range of physical systems. It allows for the prediction of the motion of objects and the understanding of complex systems in terms of simpler equations.

5. Can the Euler-Lagrange equation be used in other fields besides physics?

Yes, the Euler-Lagrange equation has applications in many other fields such as economics, engineering, and computer science. It is a powerful mathematical tool that can be used to optimize systems and understand the behavior of dynamic processes.

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