Laymans question about observational effect

  • Thread starter GUS
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In summary, my friend thinks that observing something will cause it to collapse into a specific state, whereas I think that the act of observing something has a physical effect on it that causes it to collapse.
  • #1
GUS
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Could someone please explain in laymans terms if possible how the process of effecting things by observing them actually works.
Perhaps rather pretentiously me and a friend are having a dispute. He is saying its simply a matter of the measuring device bouncing photons or whatever off whatever you are trying to measure (or observe).
However I have rather ambitiously considering how ill informed I am , said that this is not the case but the actual act of observation seems to effect the observed without there necessarily being any physical copntact - until you observe it it actually exists in more than one state.
So how do you observe these tiny things exactly ?
 
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  • #2
You must absorb some energy in order to measures anything. So by measuring you always interfere with the particle. Absorbing a photon is tricky as you need to absorb enough energy to make a measurement and you would likely have no photon left. It might be possible to have a high energy photon and take a bit of it's kinetic energy away, however in order for a photon to give up any kinetic energy it must be localized at that moment which would collapse the wave function.

This act of a wave localizing to a particle when measured is in large what QM is all about. Every time we measure a particle it is only ever in one location, though QM proposes that before we measures it, it is a wave covering all space. And only with this explanation do our calculations meet experimental results because all particles have wave like properties in many experiments (double slit, Q tunneling, etc)
 
  • #3
Theoretically speaking, you are correct. The act of "observing" (whatever that means in this case) will collapse the wavefunction from a mixture of eigenstates of the observable into one eigenstate of that observable. This is a fundamental postulate of standard QM, and requires no interpretation into the method of observing. Whatever can theoretically constitute an observation, can collapse the wave-function.

However, physically speaking, you MUST interact with the particle in some way in order to observe it. So, the physical mechanism that will make the collapse occur is interaction.
 
  • #4
I think my friend thinks observing the particle is a bit like trying to assess the position of a snooker ball on a snooker table by bouncing another snooker ball off it.
However in the case of Schrodingers cat the observation is merely observing which of two holes the particle has passed through - no interatcion is actuially postulated other than observing which route the particle took in the past.
Is my friend correct with his snooker ball analogy - is that the real reason that w effect the result by observing it - a simple matter of causality - or is it more complex ?
To really understand quantum physics properly what areas of mathematics and physics would I need to study (I don't have the opportunity to study a whole physics degree at the moment - I was wonderin if I could just read the relevant parts) ? The last thing i remember are quadratic equations - however I am prepared to learn the maths and physics necessary to gain a better understanding of the theory - I find it intriguing.
 
  • #5
http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-03Fall-2004/CourseHome/index.htm
For a solid foundation of wave mechanics

Then...

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0F530F3BAF8C6FCC
For an introduction to LVS and QM Core, less mathematical

Then..

http://physicsstream.ucsd.edu/courses/spring2003/physics130a/
For in-depth mathematical QM CoreMATH
If you have not taken Calc, you will need:
http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/Classes/CalcI/CalcI.aspx
You need to know LA
http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/Classes/LinAlg/LinAlg.aspx
You need to understand DEs
http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/Classes/DE/DE.aspxIf that is just too much, then check out this non-mathematical book which goes in-depth on the double slit experiments and others:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0375708111/?tag=pfamazon01-20
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #6
LostConjugate said:
http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-03Fall-2004/CourseHome/index.htm
For a solid foundation of wave mechanics

Then...

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=0F530F3BAF8C6FCC
For an introduction to LVS and QM Core, less mathematical

Then..

http://physicsstream.ucsd.edu/courses/spring2003/physics130a/
For in-depth mathematical QM CoreMATH
If you have not taken Calc, you will need:
http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/Classes/CalcI/CalcI.aspx
You need to know LA
http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/Classes/LinAlg/LinAlg.aspx
You need to understand DEs
http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/Classes/DE/DE.aspxIf that is just too much, then check out this non-mathematical book which goes in-depth on the double slit experiments and others:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0375708111/?tag=pfamazon01-20

No that's not too much at all, I realize this willl take time but I am determined -so I will start with calculus - you could never get me to do this at school and now look - volunteering ! - thankyou very much for your help !
 
Last edited by a moderator:

FAQ: Laymans question about observational effect

What is the observational effect?

The observational effect, also known as the observer effect, is a phenomenon in which the act of observing or measuring something can actually change the thing being observed. This is due to the fact that the act of observation can alter the behavior or properties of the object being studied.

What causes the observational effect?

The exact cause of the observational effect is still debated, but one theory is that it is due to the interaction between the observer and the object being observed. This interaction can introduce new variables or alter the existing ones, leading to changes in the object's behavior or properties.

Is the observational effect always present?

The observational effect is not always present, but it can occur in various situations depending on the type of observation and the object being observed. For example, it is commonly seen in quantum mechanics, where the act of measuring a particle's position can change its momentum.

Can the observational effect be avoided?

It is difficult to completely avoid the observational effect, as any type of observation or measurement can potentially alter the object being studied. However, scientists use various techniques to minimize its impact, such as using non-intrusive observation methods or controlling for potential observer biases.

How does the observational effect impact scientific research?

The observational effect can have a significant impact on scientific research, as it can introduce errors or bias into the results. This is why scientists must carefully design their experiments and account for the potential influence of the observer. With proper controls, the impact of the observational effect can be minimized and reliable results can be obtained.

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