Lebesgue Measurable but not Borel sets.

In summary, the conversation discusses finding a construction of a measurable subset that is not Borel and asks for a reference for this argument. It is stated that every set of outer measure 0 is measurable, and every subset of the Cantor set is measurable. The process of producing Fσ, Gδ, Fσδ, etc. only produces 2Aleph_0 sets, which is different from the cardinality of 2c=22Aleph_0. Thus, there must be a Lebesgue-measurable set that is not Borel. Questions are asked about showing the process only produces c sets and for an actual construction of this set. The conversation also briefly mentions constructing models of different cardinalities for the
  • #1
Bacle2
Science Advisor
1,089
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Hi, All:

I am trying to find a construction of a measurable subset that is not Borel, and ask

for a ref. in this argument ( see the ***) used to show the existence of such sets:

i) Every set of outer measure 0 is measurable, since:

0=m* (S)≥m*(S) , forcing equality.

ii) Every subset of the Cantor set is measurable, by i), and there are 2c=22Aleph_0 such subsets.

iii)*** The process of producing the Fσ , Gδ , Fσδ ,...

produces only 2Aleph_0 sets. ***

iv) Since the 2 cardinalities are different, there must be a set as described in ii), i.e., a Lebesgue-measurable set that is not Borel.

So, questions:

1)How do we show the process in iii) produces only c sets.

2)Anyone know of an actual construction of this set?

Thanks.
 
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  • #2
This is a bit complicated.
For (i), you are basically asking why there are only [itex]2^{\aleph_0}[/itex] Borel sets. This is proved in a lot of axiomatic set theory books.

Let me type up the basic idea. You can always ask for more details if you want. Define

[tex]\mathcal{A}_1=\{B\subseteq \mathbb{R}~\vert~\text{B is open}\}[/tex]

If [itex]\alpha[/itex] is an ordinal and if [itex]\mathcal{A}_\alpha[/itex] is defined, then define [itex]\mathcal{A}_{\alpha+1}[/itex] such that
  • If [itex]A\in \mathcal{A}_\alpha[/itex], then [itex]\mathbb{R}\setminus A\in \mathcal{A}_{\alpha+1}[/itex].
  • If [itex]A_n\in \mathcal{A}_\alpha[/itex] for [itex]n\in \mathbb{N}[/itex], then [itex]\bigcup_n{A_n}\in \mathcal{A}_{\alpha+1}[/itex]

If [itex]\gamma[/itex] is a limit ordinal, and [itex]A_\alpha[/itex] is defined for [itex]\alpha<\gamma[/itex], then define
[tex]\mathcal{A}_\gamma=\bigcup_\alpha \mathcal{A}_{\alpha}[/tex]

It is clear that if [itex]\mathcal{B}[/itex] are the Borel sets, then each [itex]\mathcal{A}_\alpha[/itex] is a subset of [itex]\mathcal{B}[/itex].

It can easily be proven by transfinite induction that each [itex]\mathcal{A}_\alpha[/itex] with [itex]\alpha\leq \omega_1[/itex] has only [itex]2^{\aleph_0}[/itex] sets.

We now show that [itex]\mathcal{A}_{\omega_1}=\mathcal{B}[/itex]. For this, it suffices to show that [itex]\mathcal{A}_{\omega_1}[/itex] is a sigma-algebra containing the open sets. This is not hard to show. Let me show, for example that if [itex]A_n\in \mathcal{A}_{\omega_1}[/itex] for [itex]n\in \mathbb{N}[/itex], then [itex]\bigcup_n{A_n}\in \mathcal{A}_{\omega_1}[/itex].

Indeed, if [itex]A_n\in \mathcal{A}_{\omega_1}[/itex], then there exists an ordinal [itex]\alpha_n<\omega_1[/itex] such that [itex]A_n\in \mathcal{A}_{\alpha_n}[/itex]. Let [itex]\alpha=\sup_n \alpha_n[/itex]. Since each [itex]\alpha_n[/itex] is countable, it follows that [itex]\alpha[/itex] (as a union of the [itex]\alpha_n[/itex]) is countable as well. So [itex]\alpha<\omega_1[/itex].
Now, since [itex]A_n\in \mathcal{A}_{\alpha_n}\subseteq \mathcal{A}_\alpha[/itex] for each n, it follows by definition that [itex]\bigcup_n A_n \in \mathcal{A}_{\alpha+1}[/itex]. But since [itex]\alpha<\omega_1[/itex], we also know that [itex]\alpha+1<\omega_1[/itex]. So we deduce that [itex]\bigcup_n A_n\in \mathcal{A}_{\alpha+1}\subseteq \mathcal{A}_{\omega_1}[/itex].

For (ii), there is this explicit construction of a non-Borel Lebesgue set: http://planetmath.org/ALebesgueMeasurableButNonBorelSet.html
 
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  • #3
I see; it's been a while since I saw this. Thanks.
 
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  • #4
Hope it is not too OT, but I wonder if you have a ref. too, for how to

construct models of the reals ( or, more generally, of 1st-order theory in the standard structure of the reals,

for other structures. ) of different cardinalities, re Lowenheim-Skolem. I would like to

avoid forcing if possible. If not, I will post it somewhere else, sorry.

Thanks.

Seriously sorry for bothering you so much; just to tell you I posted this in 'Set Theory ...' forum, so feel free to delete my post if necessary.
 
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Related to Lebesgue Measurable but not Borel sets.

1. What is a Lebesgue measurable but not Borel set?

A Lebesgue measurable but not Borel set is a subset of the real numbers that can be measured using the Lebesgue measure, but cannot be constructed using countable unions, intersections, and complements of open sets. This means that it is not a Borel set, which is a set that can be constructed using countable operations on open sets.

2. How can a set be Lebesgue measurable but not Borel?

A set can be Lebesgue measurable but not Borel if it is a non-Borel set, meaning it cannot be constructed using countable operations on open sets, but can still be measured using the Lebesgue measure. This can occur when the set is too "complicated" to be constructed using countable operations, such as sets with fractal-like properties.

3. Why are Lebesgue measurable but not Borel sets important?

Lebesgue measurable but not Borel sets are important because they provide a larger class of sets that can be measured than just Borel sets. This allows for a more comprehensive understanding of measure theory and the ability to measure more complicated sets.

4. Can Lebesgue measurable but not Borel sets be visualized?

Yes, some Lebesgue measurable but not Borel sets can be visualized, although they may be difficult to visualize due to their complex nature. For example, the Cantor set is a well-known example of a Lebesgue measurable but not Borel set and can be visualized as a fractal.

5. Are there real-world applications of Lebesgue measurable but not Borel sets?

Yes, there are real-world applications of Lebesgue measurable but not Borel sets, particularly in fields such as mathematical analysis, probability theory, and theoretical physics. They are also important in the study of fractals and self-similar structures.

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