Lets say you have a B- average right now

[Cyrus]

No offense cyrus but I think that is a silly thing to say. As long as a person eventually gets the material well enough to earn an A average, I think that's all that matters. Its not about who can get the highest grade during the first go round you take a course, its about what works best for you. Its about gaining insight knowledge and understanding of a course subject at your own pace. And besides there are a number of factors as to why a student might retake a course. Such factors may be that the student was sick all the time and could not attend classes everyday or a student maybe adjusting to college and needs to get and the swing of things. Or a student may just have family problems or the teacher sucked.

A person gets an A provided they understand the material, sure. Actually, it is about who gets the material the first go around you take a course. Retaking a course is horrible on your record. You don't want more than one or two retakes, at the MOST. If you are that sick, drop the entire semester, that's not a valid excuse. Also, college is not about learning at your own pace, its about learning at the pace set by the college, i.e. in one semester. I am sorry, but you're not going to get a whole lot of sympathy points on this one.

 

[Benzoate]

A person gets an A provided they understand the material, sure. Actually, it is about who gets the material the first go around you take a course. Retaking a course is horrible on your record. You don't want more than one or two retakes, at the MOST. If you are that sick, drop the entire semester, that's not a valid excuse. Also, college is not about learning at your own pace, its about learning at the pace set by the college, i.e. in one semester. I am sorry, but you're not going to get a whole lot of sympathy points on this one.

not true at all. the grad committees will not know if you audit a course. I also had a friend who retook most of his math courses and now is an aeronautical engineer for NASA .

do you happened to know anyone in particular who retook more than two classes and couldn't find a grad school to accept them?

 

[BioCore]

In an earlier reply to this thread, someone said that you should focus primarily on your physics classes and try to get A's in them. I was wondering, to those who are on a grad committee, if doing poorly in a course that is not of importance to grad school will affect entrance in any way? This is also in first year, so I am expecting that they won't mind but do these committees ever look into the first years of an undergrad?

 

[Benzoate]

In an earlier reply to this thread, someone said that you should focus primarily on your physics classes and try to get A's in them. I was wondering, to those who are on a grad committee, if doing poorly in a course that is not of importance to grad school will affect entrance in any way? This is also in first year, so I am expecting that they won't mind but do these committees ever look into the first years of an undergrad?

All my professors (well at least my physics professors) say its your physics GPA that they are mainly concerned about , meaning they would not care if you got a C+ in British literature

 

[BioCore]

All my professors (well at least my physics professors) say its your physics GPA that they are mainly concerned about , meaning they would not care if you got a C+ in British literature

I see, well that makes me less stressed out. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Cyrus]

not true at all. the grad committees will not know if you audit a course. I also had a friend who retook most of his math courses and now is an aeronautical engineer for NASA .

do you happened to know anyone in particular who retook more than two classes and couldn't find a grad school to accept them?

I don't know how it is at your school, but here an audit def DOES show up on your transcript. If someone had to retake 'most' of their math courses, I question why they have a degree. Here, you can retake up to 12 credits. If you exceed 12 credits of retake, you are kicked out of the program.

Also, an audit is not the same thing as retaking a course.

 

[Andy Resnick]

In an earlier reply to this thread, someone said that you should focus primarily on your physics classes and try to get A's in them. I was wondering, to those who are on a grad committee, if doing poorly in a course that is not of importance to grad school will affect entrance in any way? This is also in first year, so I am expecting that they won't mind but do these committees ever look into the first years of an undergrad?

I can only speak from personal experience. For me, a single outlying poor grade in an elective isn't worth spending time thinking about.

 

[Barfolumu]

All my professors (well at least my physics professors) say its your physics GPA that they are mainly concerned about , meaning they would not care if you got a C+ in British literature

This is very good news for me. Thanks.

 

[Cyrus]

Each school has its own poilcy,

http://www.eng.umd.edu/advising/advising_faqs.html

What is the 45 Credit Review?
In accordance with University policy, the A. James Clark School of Engineering has been designated a Limited Enrollment Program (LEP). Newly admitted Freshmen to the A. James Clark School of Engineering will need to complete specified requirements by the end of the semester in which they reach their 45th University of Maryland credit in order to remain in the Clark School.

The requirements are as follows:
ENES 100 with a 2.0 or better
MATH 141 with a 2.0 or better, or AP credit
PHYS 161 with a 2.0 or better, or AP credit
CHEM 135 or CHEM 113 with a 2.0 or better, or AP credit

Minimum cumulative grade point average of 2.00
*Only one repeat of anyone single course from the above list allowed

University Repeat Policy

Any course may be attempted twice
Students may repeat up to 18 credit hours at UMCP
A "W" counts as an attempt
Both attempts at a course are calculated into the GPA unless the course was originally taken during the first semester or within the first 24 credits taken here at UMCP (this INCLUDES transfer work). For those courses, there is a grace period where the new grade will replace the old grade in the UMCP grade point average. Please note the original grade will never be deleted from the transcript No more than 4 credits may be dropped during 1 semester

http://www.eng.umd.edu/advising/advising_acad-policies.html#repeat

I would not willingly apply to grad school with a transcript full of aduits, retakes and withdrawals, which will all be SEEN by the school you apply to.

 

[CPL.Luke]

at UMASS they only use the second grade for gpa purposes however the original grade stays on the transcript.

you are saying that because you may have messed up for various reasons in undergrad you would never apply to grad, even if you went on to do well in these courses later on in your undergrad career?

personally I have two W's on my transcript from early on, 1 was in stat 1 the second was in advance calc, I dropped both of the courses as the material wasn't necessary and the things that were being taught I already knew, hence I dropped the courses. I doubt an admissions commitee would really care, and if it did I could easily explain them. same thing goes if there is a really bad semester somewhere in that transcript, you can pretty easily explain it as you decided to enjoy college but hadn't found the proper balance yet.

If there was an important course in there that you did poorly in but understood the material you can always take the next course in the sequence. Personally I didn't do enough work or my quantum class or my mechanics class, hence in part why I'm taking the graduate courses in those subjects before I graduate.

(although the graduate quantum is really more for fun than anything else)

 

[Cyrus]

you are saying that because you may have messed up for various reasons in undergrad you would never apply to grad, even if you went on to do well in these courses later on in your undergrad career?

Im not saying that. What I am saying; however, is that its not ok to start retaking classes left and right to learn the material better a second time around.

As you get later into your academic career (past being a junior), you really should not have W's, and retakes. You've been in college for at least 2 years at this point, and should understand the process of looking up the course description, and talking to the professor before you sign up.

I've retaken courses (Calc II, statics, and one humanity course), but that was early in my career. After that, I got all A's. Had those retakes been towards the end of my career, that would have been a bigger problem.

 

[symbolipoint]

If the C learner learned so much, why did they get a C? You just shot yourself in the foot, and your making a TON of assumptions. What do you mean the A learner found the course to be easy? How do you know this? How do you know the A learner did not work hard for their A?

You are confusing proficiency with amount of learning. You are also confusing how hard a student studies with the letter grade earned.

 

[Cyrus]

Errr...if you can't show on an exam how to solve a problem, then you didnt really LEARN anything in the course. Learning is knowing how to apply what you did to a new type of problem. Not to reguritate back what is already known in your book. You are making assumptions about how hard someone studies with the letter grade they earned. Just becase someone got an A, does not mean it was easy for them. They, like you, are learning the material for the first time. Hence, they LEARNED the same amount of material as you did.

If a student studies very very hard and earns a C, they can't hack it.


-I don't now where you are getting all these assumptions from, but they are generally false.

 

[Benzoate]

Errr...if you can't show on an exam how to solve a problem, then you didnt really LEARN anything in the course. Learning is knowing how to apply what you did to a new type of problem. Not to reguritate back what is already known in your book. You are making assumptions about how hard someone studies with the letter grade they earned. Just becase someone got an A, does not mean it was easy for them. They, like you, are learning the material for the first time. Hence, they LEARNED the same amount of material as you did.

If a student studies very very hard and earns a C, they can't hack it.


-I don't now where you are getting all these assumptions from, but they are generally false.

You are so narrowminded. You are like those inadequate public school teachers in grade school who placed a student in a in a special ed's class just because he receives a bad IQ score and tells the student he will amount to nothing.
Not everyone learns in the same way. Therefore, not everyone one will get the lecture a professor presents to his students. If everybody learned a subject in the same way, their would only be one textbook publisher. Everybody's brain is wired differently.
Another thing I want to mentioned. We are PAYING these professors to teach physics. They should be encouraging their students to do better.

I'm sorry to say this but if a professor sat down privately with his student for the x amount of hours a student desire, I gurantee you the student will improve his performance in solving physics problems 150%. Richard Feynman even said this because he was not proud the way his famous introductory physics lectures notes from Caltech that were later published and formed into a book for the lay public were written or presented . He said the best physics education a physics major could received was if the professor was able to privately tutor a student who was having trouble understanding basic physics concepts.

Of course this scenario would be impossible since professors have to devoted an equal amount of time to all 30 + students inside their class , not to mentioned there research.

 

[Cyrus]

You are so narrowminded. You are like those inadequate public school teachers in grade school who placed a student in a in a special ed's class just because he receives a bad IQ score and tells the student he will amount to nothing.
Not everyone learns in the same way. Therefore, not everyone one will get the lecture a professor presents to his students. If everybody learned a subject in the same way, their would only be one textbook publisher. Everybody's brain is wired differently.
Another thing I want to mentioned. We are PAYING these professors to teach physics. They should be encouraging their students to do better.

Actually, if I were a professor, I wouldn't put anyone in special ED, I would flunk them out of the department. You should understand, for the most part, what your teacher is teaching you or you just don't know how to take notes or pay attention in class. I would learn how to do this if I were you. Yep, you paid for your teacher, and he stands infront of you and teaches you. Whats your point? His job is not to spoon feed you becuase you can't study on your own and review his lecture notes. He has office hours, go to them. The TA has office hours, go to him. You have other students in the class, go to THEM. Dont like your book, get another one from the library. Do you get my point? STOP COMPLAINING, or you can't cut it in physics.

I'm sorry to say this but if a professor sat down privately with his student for the x amount of hours a student desire, I gurantee you the student will improve his performance in solving physics problems 150%.

It does not work this way, college is not hold my hand and teach me. Get used to it. If you can't do this, you WILL NOT survive grad school where you are expected to learn ON YOUR OWN.

Richard Feynman even said this because he was not proud the way his famous introductory physics lectures notes from Caltech that were later published and formed into a book for the lay public were written or presented . He said the best physics education a physics major could received was if the professor was able to privately tutor a student who was having trouble understanding basic physics concepts.

Of course this scenario would be impossible since professors have to devoted an equal amount of time to all 30 + students inside their class , not to mentioned there research.

30+ students? I had classes with upwards of 100+ students. They call such courses 'weed out' classes. If you can't make it, they weed you out of the engineering program. Life is tough, suck it up and study.

 

[Shackleford]

I prefer to learn on my own and clarify fuzzy things myself with the book, or whatever.

 

[symbolipoint]

From Cyrus:

If a student studies very very hard and earns a C, they can't hack it.


-I don't now where you are getting all these assumptions from, but they are generally false.

... the point is, that they DID "hack it".

 

[Benzoate]

I prefer to learn on my own and clarify fuzzy things myself with the book, or whatever.

Yees me too. To tell you the truth, I sometime prefer the textbook to the lecture notes , depending on if I can easily follow the writing style of its author. If the textbook does not clarify a physical concept to me very well, I either asked my proffessor for further clarification of a physics law or at go to my library and check out a textbook with the same subject matter , but the author of the textbook has a writing style I can easily follow

 

[SCV]

You are so narrowminded. You are like those inadequate public school teachers in grade school who placed a student in a in a special ed's class just because he receives a bad IQ score and tells the student he will amount to nothing.
Not everyone learns in the same way. Therefore, not everyone one will get the lecture a professor presents to his students. If everybody learned a subject in the same way, their would only be one textbook publisher. Everybody's brain is wired differently.
Another thing I want to mentioned. We are PAYING these professors to teach physics. They should be encouraging their students to do better.

I'm sorry to say this but if a professor sat down privately with his student for the x amount of hours a student desire, I gurantee you the student will improve his performance in solving physics problems 150%. Richard Feynman even said this because he was not proud the way his famous introductory physics lectures notes from Caltech that were later published and formed into a book for the lay public were written or presented . He said the best physics education a physics major could received was if the professor was able to privately tutor a student who was having trouble understanding basic physics concepts.

Of course this scenario would be impossible since professors have to devoted an equal amount of time to all 30 + students inside their class , not to mentioned there research.

First of all let me say that you are also guilty of being narrow minded. In fact you were the one first persons on this thread to make a narrow minded comment, i.e., you said "just because a student doesn't get straight A's doesn't make him a mediocre student."

This was a response to a statement about getting Bs on all physics classes meaning a student is very mediocre. Now the if the statement had been "Not getting all As in physics classes means a student is very mediocre mediocre" your statement would have been OK.

This was narrow minded because if you got Bs for your first 4 physics courses and then As after that then you would not have straight As, but you would not have all Bs either. Under the comment you responded to, this situation would not make a student very mediocre.

Now this discussion pretty much began with symbolipoint's:

"An evaluater should view course grades carefully and cleverly, and really must do something beyond just viewing a set of course grades to know what each grade really means. One understanding of grade A is that the course was too easy; and of grade C is that the student worked very very hard in order to achieve meaningful learning. The C grade was due to much learning occurring.

Really, has anyone ever tried to repeat a course and achieve the same grade the second time as was earned the first time? Generally, the second grade should be higher. Really too, has anyone ever studied in a class that relied on a pre-designed strict grading scale of 90-80-70-60 for A-B-C-D, instead of the instructor grading "on a curve"?"

I thinks that the key observation about symbolipoint's statement is what I put in bold above. He could have phrased his statement differently so that what he meant was more clear, however.

Maybe something like it could "be the case that a student who got an A in a course found it ridiculously easy, while a person who got a C worked very hard trying to achieve meaningful leaning".

(Maybe the person go got a C even achieved meaningful learning, just not on as much material as was required.)

However, we should ask how often this happens. Certainly it does not always happen all the time. Symbolipoint did not say it did happen all the time.

Even when it does happen I'm not sure that supports the point symbolipoint was trying to make. For example there are courses I could take for which I have studied the material before and learned it well. I would surely find those courses ridiculously easy and I would get an A. But maybe someone who is not as well prepared as I am works very hard in the same course only to achieve a C. Maybe he learned a lot more but that would be because there was very little for me to learn (as I would already know the material).

symbolipoint, maybe you should just start over and do a better job of explaining what you meant with your first statement. In particular, I think you should explain why it is significant, and why people evaluating an application should keep in mind that this is a possibility.

From my point of view a grade means that based on the professor's (or whoever assigned the grade) the student was able meet the requirements for that being awarded that grade .

This is because the meaning of the grade depends on what class it was and who assigned the grades. For example, I took an advanced class before where the professor said that to get an A we had to demonstrate that we had tried to solve the homework problems. Here the meaning of my A means that I was able to demonstrate that I tried to sold the homework problems. Of course there's no way for anyone looking at my transcript to know this.
There was another class I took (my first upper division class) in which there was very strict grading. My professor even told people to drop the class if he did not think they were doing well enough to pass the class (get a C). I got about 50% on the first midterm but did well enough on everything else to get an A-. Now if I had gotten an A it would not have been because I found the class easy. I worked very hard to learn the material for this class and was able to demonstrate that I had learned the material to a certain level but not at the level my professor thought was enough to be awarded an A. Now if someone looked and saw that I had an A in the class I described first and an A- in the one I described second they should not compare the two. Those grades mean different things because they were different classes at different times in my education from different professors, etc.

Actually I would say that I have not had to work as hard as I did when I took my first upper division class to learn the material for the course. In my view that's a good thing. That means I have gotten better.

Its way too hard to try to figure out what each grade means. Why should evaluators try to?

Now as for retaking classes:

This should probably only be done if the grade you got in the class is lower than the minimum required by anyone is going to be reviewing your grades. As I have already hinted at before the meaning of a grade does is not always clear and it can also happen that one gets a bad grade in a course we could do better in another try. In fact my first two grades in my major were a B, B+ respectively. Now I while other's might not be able to know what these grades mean and there is a very high chance that they will not means the exactly same as another person who got the same grades in the same two classes from the same professor, I know that they mean I had not learned the material as well as I should have. I know exactly why I did not learn it as well as I should have also. I was able to identify and eliminate the problem and got A-,A,A+'s (just 3 A-)on the rest of the classes for my major except for one B+. I never retook the the first two classes (where I got a B and a B+) and it would have been a great waste of my time to do so.

I am going to have to support Cyrus' statement that you have to be able to learn at the pace the university sets (actually at the pace that the specific class you take sets). One of my professors has commented about this before and it is not really a system that is "fair" to everyone because as you said not everyone learns at the same pace. But a line has to be drawn somewhere. If a person is just trying to take classes towards a degree for the sake of being able to say that they could complete the material or if they retake classes until they get As for the sake of being able to say that they could eventually learn it well enough to get an A then that's OK. But if you look at it from the point of future employers and of the institutions that trains those who will be employed they are not looking for a person to "eventually" be able to understand, solve, etc. Sadly there are time constraints that we will have to deal with in our adult lives, especially as scientists.

Now as to your original question, it is definitely possible for you to get above a 3.0 GPA in your physics classes. What you have to do is identify the source of your getting a B- average rather than B, B+, A-,A, A+. Then figure out what are your options as to addressing that issue and figuring out how to implement a solution.

 

[SCV]

I prefer to learn on my own and clarify fuzzy things myself with the book, or whatever.

Yes there are many things we can do to learn certain material better. I will have to do this for the class which I mentioned in my previous post (the only (math) class in which I got lower than an A- after my first two classes). I will be studying on my own, sitting in on the class (but not retaking as it would be a waste of my money and time) I am only concerned with learning the material I don't have to get a better grade there's no point in retaking the class.

From Cyrus:

... the point is, that they DID "hack it".

I don't get it. Can you please clarify? I would really like to understand what you mean.

 

[Cyrus]

From Cyrus:



... the point is, that they DID "hack it".

What did they hack, sub-par understanding of their course material? A C is the minimum grade you can pass with. Quite sad you think this is somehow acceptable.

 

[symbolipoint]

What did they hack, sub-par understanding of their course material? A C is the minimum grade you can pass with. Quite sad you think this is somehow acceptable.

A grade of C might be a result of repeating a course which serves as a prerequisite for another course or set of courses. Depending on the student's major field of study, too many C's may very well indicate that he is not yet suitable for graduate level programs.

 

[Cyrus]

A grade of C might be a result of repeating a course which serves as a prerequisite for another course or set of courses. Depending on the student's major field of study, too many C's may very well indicate that he is not yet suitable for graduate level programs.

Many schools won't even take your application with a GPA below a 3.0. If you want to get into and descent graduate program, make sure your GPA is 3.5 and higher.

 

[BioCore]

Many schools won't even take your application with a GPA below a 3.0. If you want to get into and descent graduate program, make sure your GPA is 3.5 and higher.

This is very true, actually in almost all of the graduate schools I have looked into their minimum average is somewhere around a 3.4 to 3.5! I noticed a lot of people claiming that the only reason a person should retake is to upgrade the mark of if failed to do better the next time.

At UofT, I believe that if you pass even with a 51% you can not retake the course. But I am not sure about this.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

then they would be a very mediocre student...

IMHO someone who can't spell “quasar” is somewhat of a mediocre student too. Unless you're a member of http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ck7xpxNcBfo" or something, in which case you're mediocre in even more ways.

⚛​

 

[CaptainQuaser]

IMHO someone who can't spell “quasar” is somewhat of a mediocre student too. Unless you're a member of http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ck7xpxNcBfo" or something, in which case you're mediocre in even more ways.

⚛​

Ha, I chose Quaser instead of Quasar some 8-10 years ago when first setting up a hotmail account and frankly captainquasar was already taken. I use this email address in correspondance with all my professors and none have decided to lower my A's and A+'s to B's because of it. So frankly, the spelling of Quaser has zero correlation to being a mediocre student. Getting B's however does...

 

[Vid]

Everyone knows the correct spelling is Qwazaar.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

I use this email address in correspondance with all my professors and none have decided to lower my A's and A+'s to B's because of it. So frankly, the spelling of Quaser has zero correlation to being a mediocre student. Getting B's however does...

“correspondance”? But you're right, I shouldn't focus on superficial things that say nothing about the real character or quality of one's erudition.

A's and A+'s? My, my, what a bright boy. Here's your gold star. I'm sure you'll make employee of the month wherever you end up.

⚛​

 

[CaptainQuaser]

I'm not entirely sure why this ridiculous squabble started. I am sorry if you are a B student and I offended you, and it sure was clever of you to mention the misspelling of my name... So ya, I really don't have time for message board childishness.

 

[Shackleford]

I'm not entirely sure why this ridiculous squabble started. I am sorry if you are a B student and I offended you, and it sure was clever of you to mention the misspelling of my name... So ya, I really don't have time for message board childishness.

Apparently, you do have time for message-board childishness.

 

[cristo]

I just glanced at this thread and thought I saw the same person arguing with himself! Shows how little I notice spelling!

 

[CaptainQuasar]

I'm not entirely sure why this ridiculous squabble started. I am sorry if you are a B student and I offended you, and it sure was clever of you to mention the misspelling of my name... So ya, I really don't have time for message board childishness.

Ah, so being snide about spelling ability is childish, but being snide about grades is adult, hmm?

Neither of them have anything to do with how good a student one is. Being a student has to do with studying and learning. How many gold stars you can get from teachers or a school system mostly says how good a brown noser you are - especially if you brag about it on internet message boards. You may have heard the term “meritocracy.”

It's been a few years since I graduated from college now, working in a field that requires constant on-the-job learning. And I've run into quite a few people who were obviously high-grade-getters who are practically unable to learn anything or study a subject without teachers to lead them by the hand and classmates to copy off of and extra credit assignments to pass in.

So like I said, the thing that high grades are really determinant of is whether you'll get “Employee of the Month” awards if you end up in large institutional or corporate jobs.

My own grades? Maybe I got A's or maybe I got C's - it doesn't matter, I'm definitely a good student. And I don't need someone else to tell me that. Along the same lines, you shouldn't be snidely labeling other people as mediocre students, especially if all you've got to establish your authority on that is good grades. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones - your inability to spell being a case in point.

⚛​