Line element in cylindrical coordinates

  • #1
Catalina-
2
1
Homework Statement
As part of a recent homework I have to convert the line element
$$
ds²=-dt²+dx²+dy²+dz²
$$
to cylindrical coordinates
Relevant Equations
The cylindrical coordinates were given by
$$
r=\sqrt{x²+y²}
$$
$$
\phi=arctan(\frac{y}{x})
$$
First I took the total derivative of these and arrived at
$$
dr=\frac{\partial r}{\partial x}dx+\frac{\partial r}{\partial y}dy \quad\rightarrow \quad r²dr=xdx+ydy
$$
$$
d\phi=\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x}dx+\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial y}dy \quad\rightarrow \quad r²dr
\phi=-ydx+xdy
$$
After solving the system of equations I got
$$
dx= xdr-yd\phi
$$
$$
dy=ydr+xd\phi
$$
After squaring these separately and adding them I got
$$
dx²+dy²=r²dr²+r²d\phi²
$$
and therefor the line element
$$
ds²=-dt²+r²dr²+r²d\phi²+dz²
$$
However the solution is not supposed to have a r² factor with the dr² term. I have looked at it for a while now but I cant seem to find my error.
 
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  • #2
Catalina- said:
Homework Statement: As part of a recent homework I have to convert the line element
$$
ds²=-dt²+dx²+dy²+dz²
$$
to cylindrical coordinates
Relevant Equations: The cylindrical coordinates were given by
$$
r=\sqrt{x²+y²}
$$
$$
\phi=arctan(\frac{y}{x})
$$

First I took the total derivative of these and arrived at
$$
dr=\frac{\partial r}{\partial x}dx+\frac{\partial r}{\partial y}dy \quad\rightarrow \quad r²dr=xdx+ydy
$$
$$
d\phi=\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x}dx+\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial y}dy \quad\rightarrow \quad r²dr
\phi=-ydx+xdy
$$
You have an extra factor of [itex]r[/itex] on the left hand side of your result for [itex]dr[/itex]. But since you haven't shown us how you calculated the partial derivatives, we can't tell you how it got there.

But none of this is necessary. You need to find [itex]dx^2 + dy^2[/itex] in terms of [itex]dr[/itex] and [itex]d\phi[/itex]. The easiest way is to start from [tex]
\left. \begin{aligned} x = r \cos \phi \\ y = r \sin \phi \end{aligned}\right\} \Rightarrow
\left\{\begin{aligned} dx = \cos \phi\,dr - r\sin \phi\,d\phi \\
dy = \sin \phi \,dr + r\cos \phi\,d\phi \end{aligned}\right.[/tex]
 
  • #3
Hi. Welcome to PF. In addition to what @pasmith said, it may be worth noting that
Catalina- said:
$$r²dr=xdx+ydy$$
can easily be seen to be wrong on dimensional grounds. The left side has dimensions ##L^3## (length cubed) but the right hand side has dimensions ##L^2## so there's an error.
 
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  • #4
Thank you very much for your help @pasmith & @Steve4Physics.

You pointed me in the exact right direction, I made a silly mistake in the derivation of dr.
 
  • Like
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Related to Line element in cylindrical coordinates

What is the line element in cylindrical coordinates?

The line element in cylindrical coordinates (r, θ, z) describes the infinitesimal distance between two points in a cylindrical coordinate system. It is given by the expression: \( ds^2 = dr^2 + r^2 d\theta^2 + dz^2 \). This formula accounts for the radial, angular, and vertical components of the distance.

How do you derive the line element in cylindrical coordinates?

To derive the line element in cylindrical coordinates, we start with the Cartesian coordinates (x, y, z) and express them in terms of cylindrical coordinates: \( x = r \cos\theta \), \( y = r \sin\theta \), and \( z = z \). The differential distance \( ds \) is then obtained by taking the differentials of these expressions and combining them: \( ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 \). Substituting the differentials, we get \( ds^2 = dr^2 + r^2 d\theta^2 + dz^2 \).

What are the applications of the line element in cylindrical coordinates?

The line element in cylindrical coordinates is used in various fields such as physics, engineering, and mathematics. It is particularly useful in problems with cylindrical symmetry, such as the study of electromagnetic fields around wires, fluid flow in pipes, and heat conduction in cylindrical objects. It simplifies the mathematical treatment of these problems by aligning the coordinate system with the symmetry of the problem.

How does the line element in cylindrical coordinates differ from that in Cartesian coordinates?

The line element in Cartesian coordinates is \( ds^2 = dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 \), which directly measures the infinitesimal distance in a straight-line manner. In contrast, the line element in cylindrical coordinates, \( ds^2 = dr^2 + r^2 d\theta^2 + dz^2 \), accounts for the radial distance, the angular distance (scaled by the radius r), and the vertical distance separately. This distinction is crucial for problems with cylindrical symmetry, where the radial and angular components are more naturally described.

Can the line element in cylindrical coordinates be used in general relativity?

Yes, the line element in cylindrical coordinates can be extended to general relativity, where it is used to describe spacetime in cylindrical symmetry. In general relativity, the metric tensor is used to define the line element, and in cylindrical coordinates, it can take forms that account for the curvature of spacetime. For example, the line element for a cylindrically symmetric spacetime might include additional terms that describe the gravitational effects in such a coordinate system.

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