Looking for information on hydrogen thyrator

[dr350rex]

TL;DR Summary

Looking for information on hydrogen thyrator

Greetings, gentlemen. I have come into possession of what I have been told is a hydrogen thyrator.

Of course I have done the requisite Googling, but do any of you old EEs have any insight on the item? Original application, general manufacture date, usage today, value, precautions in handling, etc.? I have been pretty cavalier about moving this thing around and have been told to be careful with it because it may have some radiation or dangerous gases present inside, so I would like to know if I should not turn it into a paperweight or be close to it at all. I'm also curious to know what would happen if the glass were to be broken; as in, would it explode?

I would be much obliged for any information you can provide.

 

[anorlunda]

ping @dlgoff

 

[dlgoff]

ping @dlgoff

I don't think I can be of any help on this. Sorry.

 

[berkeman]

Summary: Tell me about this hydrogen thyrator

Original application, general manufacture date, usage today, value, precautions in handling, etc.?

Welcome to PF.

So there is no writing of any kind (except those couple red numbers) on the device? If not, you could try taking another picture like your first one, but with a plain good-contrast background and use Google Images to do a search on that image. You might get enough hits to start refining your search and adding search terms.

BTW, who are you calling "old"?

 

[dr350rex]

Welcome to PF.

So there is no writing of any kind (except those couple red numbers) on the device? If not, you could try taking another picture like your first one, but with a plain good-contrast background and use Google Images to do a search on that image. You might get enough hits to start refining your search and adding search terms.

BTW, who are you calling "old"?

I probably have as much white hair as anybody here!

I haven't found any, but when I'm next in the item's presence, I will follow the advice of this guy from reddit.

If you hold the glass up to a light, and slowly rotate it as you move your eyes slowly up and down the glass, you hopefully will be able to see remnants of the etched or printed model number. It's usually 3 to 5 digits, often containing numbers and letters. You might have to hold the tube so that you're viewing the side of the glass envelope as light reflects off of it.

If you can find anything that looks like a number or letters, we can go from there. I collect tubes, and have a few resources to search tube data with all or part of the model number.

The "45" is probably a date or batch code, and the model number is rarely on the metal base ring. It's usually on the side of the glass, and sometimes on the top.

 

[Opera]

I imaging it is similar to a mercury one. One interesting book which would likely hold information about it, at least hydrogen as a conductor is the book James Dillon Cobine GASEOUS CONDUCTORS. My copy is a thousand miles away. It has been in print for more than 70 years, the bible of things that go arc in the night. New books just don't have the detail of some of the old ones. I happen to have a couple books from Cobine's personal library. That and $4 gets me a cup of coffee.

 

[Tom.G]

Two old-time tricks:

1) Put it in the freezer for a while; when removed the condensation will often highlight the numbers.
2) Ammonia fumes will also highlight the numbers.

A few more tricks (where the above are included) can be found at:
https://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=88854

(above found with:
https://www.google.com/search?&q=read+faded+numbers+on+vacuum+tube)

Cheers,
Tom

 

[dr350rex]

Thanks, Tom! Will give that a try.

 

[DaveE]

JAN-5948 or 5948A maybe?
http://lampes-et-tubes.info/th/th077.php?l=e
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143958235127
https://frank.pocnet.net/other/ITT/ITT_HydrogenThyratronTubes_1984.pdf

I don't think it's dangerous, unless you count the broken glass shard hazard.

The radioactive versions have a β emitter and are called Krytrons. They are not at all common and aren't so big, I think. We used a few Krytrons when I worked at a DoD contractor. They were about the size of a small walnut and didn't require any special handling. They aren't easy to buy since they are called "atom bomb triggers" in the press.

 

[dr350rex]

Thanks for the great resources. Maybe I'll get a Geiger counter just in case.

 

[globecollector]

I don't think I can be of any help on this. Sorry.

I have to admit, I have never heard the term, "Thyrator" but I do know what a Thyratron is!

The pictures definitely look like a Thyratron, although not specifically like any of the many Thyratrons I own.

I would say as a "gut instinct" and comparing to all my Thyratrons that this is a Xenon filled Thyratron with about a 5-10A anode current rating somewhat similar to a Philips PL-105.

Some Thyratrons used Mercury, but considering the toxicity and corrisivness of this metal toward aluminium, later models were developed using Xenon instead...and were made as specific replacements for the older Mercury filled models.

Hydrogen Thyratrons did exist. They were primerily used to pulse magnetrons in Radar sets with very short pulses of D.C., they were called "Trigatrons" and one can be seen here... http://www.r-type.org/exhib/acl0223.htm

If you search this site further... from the index page. This page shows ALL the valves in their collection...which is A LOT...it takes ages to load even with a relatively high download rate...with dial-up, you'd be there for weeks! http://www.r-type.org/inx/master.htm However you can search the thumbnails for a Thyratron that looks similar or might even find the exact one you have there.

I see its base pins...probably to the directly heated cathode...have been "butchered" off, possibly to mount it to a board as a display. So if you were to fire it up you'd need to get to what's left of the heather/cathode leads up inside the stem which might mean getting that piece of Bakelized Paper (Hard Brown Composite Stuff) out of the base.

It was probably used in the Light Dimmer in a Cinema, (in anti-parallel with a second one the same) or in a centre tap, full wave arrangement, again with another the same in a Welder where it provided a variable D.C. source to a large saturable-core reactor that supplied the true regulation for the Welding Arc.

Bear in mind this is the thermionic predecessor of the S.C.R. and its electrical behaviour is actually quite similar with the grid being the equivalent of the gate lead of the S.C.R.

Two, in Anti-Parallel is the equivalent of a TRIAC with some sort of pulse transformer driving and isolating their grids.

Some Other Thyratrons for comparison...

Mullard XR1 3200 5544

Philips PL 105

British Thompson-Houston BT-37

First two are Xenon filled and the third is a Mercury Thyratron.More at the "Type-r" Website

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aab0030.htm BT 49 (Hg)

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aad0264.htm 5C22 (H2)

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aag0031.htm 6807 (H2)

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abh0216.htm XR1-6400 (Xe)

http://www.r-type.org/adverts/adv-0976.htm XR1-6400 Ad. 1958

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/acl0102.htm Similar Device, IGNITRON woth Mercury Pool Cathode.

 

[Klystron]

Summary: Looking for information on hydrogen thyrator

I would be much obliged for any information you can provide

I worked with similar devices in the early 1970's used in air traffic control radars.

Hydrogen Thyratrons did exist. They were primarily used to pulse magnetrons in Radar sets with very short pulses of D.C. ...

Correct. Hydrogen thyratron tubes were replaced with solid state stack devices where feasible in the 1970's time period for a variety of reasons including extreme danger to technicians from radiation, poisonous gases, potential explosions, arcing and electrocution hazards. The solid-state devices greatly improved pulse shape and edges while exploiting the potential of improved cavity magnetrons.

Firing up a bank of mercury-based hydrogen thyratrons -- the tubes required frequent replacement -- could be quite spectacular. After warmup and 'cooking' procedures, switching on the tubes splashed liquid mercury within the enclosure producing a variety of audible and visual effects including a loud distinct "slap" and intense audible hum.

The hydrogen gas glowed with intense violet colors during operation. Planned maintenance inspections (PMIs) included inspecting the visible light through an optical port in the cabinet enclosure several times a shift. Certain procedures required opening the cabinets while operating at full power, always risky depending on the tube design, operating regime and the breakdown potential of the air. Arcing from the top of the tube increased the hazard particularly as the tubes aged.

Radar techs breathed much easier after replacing hydrogen thyratrons with solid state devices though a bit of mystery and danger left the scene.

 

[DaveE]

the tubes required frequent replacement

This is the real issue, IMO. They were big, fragile, and had very limited lifetimes compared to silicon devices. Basically a PIA to use by modern standards.

 

[dr350rex]

I have to admit, I have never heard the term, "Thyrator" but I do know what a Thyratron is!

The pictures definitely look like a Thyratron, although not specifically like any of the many Thyratrons I own.

I would say as a "gut instinct" and comparing to all my Thyratrons that this is a Xenon filled Thyratron with about a 5-10A anode current rating somewhat similar to a Philips PL-105.

Some Thyratrons used Mercury, but considering the toxicity and corrisivness of this metal toward aluminium, later models were developed using Xenon instead...and were made as specific replacements for the older Mercury filled models.

Hydrogen Thyratrons did exist. They were primerily used to pulse magnetrons in Radar sets with very short pulses of D.C., they were called "Trigatrons" and one can be seen here... http://www.r-type.org/exhib/acl0223.htm

If you search this site further... from the index page. This page shows ALL the valves in their collection...which is A LOT...it takes ages to load even with a relatively high download rate...with dial-up, you'd be there for weeks! http://www.r-type.org/inx/master.htm However you can search the thumbnails for a Thyratron that looks similar or might even find the exact one you have there.

I see its base pins...probably to the directly heated cathode...have been "butchered" off, possibly to mount it to a board as a display. So if you were to fire it up you'd need to get to what's left of the heather/cathode leads up inside the stem which might mean getting that piece of Bakelized Paper (Hard Brown Composite Stuff) out of the base.

It was probably used in the Light Dimmer in a Cinema, (in anti-parallel with a second one the same) or in a centre tap, full wave arrangement, again with another the same in a Welder where it provided a variable D.C. source to a large saturable-core reactor that supplied the true regulation for the Welding Arc.

Bear in mind this is the thermionic predecessor of the S.C.R. and its electrical behaviour is actually quite similar with the grid being the equivalent of the gate lead of the S.C.R.

Two, in Anti-Parallel is the equivalent of a TRIAC with some sort of pulse transformer driving and isolating their grids.

Some Other Thyratrons for comparison...

Mullard XR1 3200 5544

Philips PL 105

British Thompson-Houston BT-37

First two are Xenon filled and the third is a Mercury Thyratron.More at the "Type-r" Website

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aab0030.htm BT 49 (Hg)

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aad0264.htm 5C22 (H2)

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aag0031.htm 6807 (H2)

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abh0216.htm XR1-6400 (Xe)

http://www.r-type.org/adverts/adv-0976.htm XR1-6400 Ad. 1958

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/acl0102.htm Similar Device, IGNITRON woth Mercury Pool Cathode.

I have to admit, I have never heard the term, "Thyrator" but I do know what a Thyratron is!

The pictures definitely look like a Thyratron, although not specifically like any of the many Thyratrons I own.

I would say as a "gut instinct" and comparing to all my Thyratrons that this is a Xenon filled Thyratron with about a 5-10A anode current rating somewhat similar to a Philips PL-105.

Some Thyratrons used Mercury, but considering the toxicity and corrisivness of this metal toward aluminium, later models were developed using Xenon instead...and were made as specific replacements for the older Mercury filled models.

Hydrogen Thyratrons did exist. They were primerily used to pulse magnetrons in Radar sets with very short pulses of D.C., they were called "Trigatrons" and one can be seen here... http://www.r-type.org/exhib/acl0223.htm

If you search this site further... from the index page. This page shows ALL the valves in their collection...which is A LOT...it takes ages to load even with a relatively high download rate...with dial-up, you'd be there for weeks! http://www.r-type.org/inx/master.htm However you can search the thumbnails for a Thyratron that looks similar or might even find the exact one you have there.

I see its base pins...probably to the directly heated cathode...have been "butchered" off, possibly to mount it to a board as a display. So if you were to fire it up you'd need to get to what's left of the heather/cathode leads up inside the stem which might mean getting that piece of Bakelized Paper (Hard Brown Composite Stuff) out of the base.

It was probably used in the Light Dimmer in a Cinema, (in anti-parallel with a second one the same) or in a centre tap, full wave arrangement, again with another the same in a Welder where it provided a variable D.C. source to a large saturable-core reactor that supplied the true regulation for the Welding Arc.

Bear in mind this is the thermionic predecessor of the S.C.R. and its electrical behaviour is actually quite similar with the grid being the equivalent of the gate lead of the S.C.R.

Two, in Anti-Parallel is the equivalent of a TRIAC with some sort of pulse transformer driving and isolating their grids.

Some Other Thyratrons for comparison...

Mullard XR1 3200 5544

Philips PL 105

British Thompson-Houston BT-37

First two are Xenon filled and the third is a Mercury Thyratron.More at the "Type-r" Website

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aab0030.htm BT 49 (Hg)

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aad0264.htm 5C22 (H2)

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aag0031.htm 6807 (H2)

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/abh0216.htm XR1-6400 (Xe)

http://www.r-type.org/adverts/adv-0976.htm XR1-6400 Ad. 1958

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/acl0102.htm Similar Device, IGNITRON woth Mercury Pool Cathode.

For some reason my fingers type "thyrator" even though I know it's a thyratron! :/ That's a lot of great info that is sadly above my pay grade, but I'm filing it away for posterity. Looks like this will be an interesting dust collector on my shelf, but that's just fine. Thanks!

 

[dr350rex]

I worked with similar devices in the early 1970's used in air traffic control radars.Correct. Hydrogen thyratron tubes were replaced with solid state stack devices where feasible in the 1970's time period for a variety of reasons including extreme danger to technicians from radiation, poisonous gases, potential explosions, arcing and electrocution hazards. The solid-state devices greatly improved pulse shape and edges while exploiting the potential of improved cavity magnetrons.

Firing up a bank of mercury-based hydrogen thyratrons -- the tubes required frequent replacement -- could be quite spectacular. After warmup and 'cooking' procedures, switching on the tubes splashed liquid mercury within the enclosure producing a variety of audible and visual effects including a loud distinct "slap" and intense audible hum.

The hydrogen gas glowed with intense violet colors during operation. Planned maintenance inspections (PMIs) included inspecting the visible light through an optical port in the cabinet enclosure several times a shift. Certain procedures required opening the cabinets while operating at full power, always risky depending on the tube design, operating regime and the breakdown potential of the air. Arcing from the top of the tube increased the hazard particularly as the tubes aged.

Radar techs breathed much easier after replacing hydrogen thyratrons with solid state devices though a bit of mystery and danger left the scene.

"Radar techs breathed much easier after replacing hydrogen thyratrons with solid state devices though a bit of mystery and danger left the scene."

Just can't have any fun these days LOL