Looking for information on Verity SD100 monochromator unit

[Ducatidragon916]

Does anyone have any information pdf manuals etc. on the Verity SD100 Monochromator? Even first hand experience operating this unit would be helpful! I have combed through the internet to no avail, sent more than several emails to the manufacturers with no replies(not sure if the company is defunct).

I understand this unit was manufactured in 1998 but is pretty sophisticated for the time as it is microprocessor controlled etc. I have been trying to sniff the output on the serial connector on the unit but nothing comes up. It powers up goes through a self check and does an grating scan as you can hear the stepper motor inside moving etc.

I am hoping to be able to retrieve information on the serial output to use for a spectral bandwidth analysis and observation etc. any information even operational hands on would clue me in this unit as it is really a nicely built and quality looking boat anchor which i would hate to go fishing with. Thanks for any inputs on this question!

 

[berkeman]

I am hoping to be able to retrieve information on the serial output

Does that COM 1 port look like just a printer output port, or does it look like a bi-directional control port? It's hard to tell from the picture, but is it a male DB-9 connector? Have you tried measuring the voltages on the pins in that connector? What-all have you tried for connecting to it to see if you can get some response? It may require a null modem cable to be able to communicate with that port.

You could try various BAUD rates and handshakes, and try using the pretty universal query "IDN?" to see if you get a response. It may also output some ID string when the unit is powered up...

 

[Ducatidragon916]

Yes Berkeman the COM1 port is a DB-9 Connector etc. I attached a serial adapter to my Computer to determine what is coming and going and I have tried changing the baud rates etc and other connections to if anything shakes out of the unit. I have not tried the IDN query but will try in a few minutes to see anything as well. I think you might be right about the ID string etc. I will check back to and let you know what i find.
Thanks!!!

George

 

[berkeman]

You may need a null modem cable adapter, since your PC/Laptop/Adapter likely is also a DB9 male. You can also try a simple RS-232 LED status adapter to watch for activity on the link:

I spent quite a bit of time getting my RS-232 links to work with HP instruments (DVMs, signal generators, etc.), but once you figure out the right setup and settings, things can go a lot better. The HP instruments typically have a Menu button that lets you change the Baud rate and other serial connection settings -- do you see anything like that on your instrument? It may only have a default serial configuration, though (like 9600, 8N1N or similar).

(I'll attach my crib notes for getting serial communications working with a typical HP instrument, in case that helps.)

 

[Ducatidragon916]

Does that COM 1 port look like just a printer output port, or does it look like a bi-directional control port? It's hard to tell from the picture, but is it a male DB-9 connector? Have you tried measuring the voltages on the pins in that connector? What-all have you tried for connecting to it to see if you can get some response? It may require a null modem cable to be able to communicate with that port.

You could try various BAUD rates and handshakes, and try using the pretty universal query "IDN?" to see if you get a response. It may also output some ID string when the unit is powered up...

So i wrung out the pins of the Serial 9 pin here is what was measured from the signal ground pin. The only pin that showed voltage of anything was the pin 3( I think RxD) which was roughly 10v from the pin 5 signal ground. I tried various combinations with the Putty program to check and see the serial signals etc. nothing was working so far. Maybe i don't have something connected up right? Not sure since this is my First in digging in to the nuts and bolts of serial connections etc. I am all ears to any other suggestions!!!
Thanks!!!
George

 

[berkeman]

I have combed through the internet to no avail, sent more than several emails to the manufacturers with no replies(not sure if the company is defunct).

The copyright on their website looks current -- when you sent the e-mails or tried calling, was it via their Tech Support portal?

https://www.verityinst.com/support/support/

 

[berkeman]

So i wrung out the pins of the Serial 9 pin here is what was measured from the signal ground pin. The only pin that showed voltage of anything was the pin 3( I think RxD) which was roughly 10v from the pin 5 signal ground. I tried various combinations with the Putty program to check and see the serial signals etc. nothing was working so far. Maybe i don't have something connected up right? Not sure since this is my First in digging in to the nuts and bolts of serial connections etc. I am all ears to any other suggestions!!!
Thanks!!!
George

Did you get a chance to read my crib notes yet? At least with that instrument, I needed a full null modem cable (including the handshake line swaps) in order to get it to work.

 

[berkeman]

I have combed through the internet to no avail, sent more than several emails to the manufacturers with no replies(not sure if the company is defunct).

Hmm, the latest press release on their website is from 2016, but at least Google Maps seems to show them still there early in 2023:

 

[Ducatidragon916]

You may need a null modem cable adapter, since your PC/Laptop/Adapter likely is also a DB9 male. You can also try a simple RS-232 LED status adapter to watch for activity on the link:

View attachment 338382

I spent quite a bit of time getting my RS-232 links to work with HP instruments (DVMs, signal generators, etc.), but once you figure out the right setup and settings, things can go a lot better. The HP instruments typically have a Menu button that lets you change the Baud rate and other serial connection settings -- do you see anything like that on your instrument? It may only have a default serial configuration, though (like 9600, 8N1N or similar).

(I'll attach my crib notes for getting serial communications working with a typical HP instrument, in case that helps.)

Berkeman No i did not see anything to change or switch the serial connection settings etc.

Did you get a chance to read my crib notes yet? At least with that instrument, I needed a full null modem cable (including the handshake line swaps) in order to get it to work.

Berkeman,
Sorry i just got this message I will read the crib notes to see if I can use any of the suggestions etc.
Thanks!!!

 

[Ducatidragon916]

Hmm, the latest press release on their website is from 2016, but at least Google Maps seems to show them still there early in 2023:

View attachment 338385

Great Investigative work!!!!

 

[Ducatidragon916]

Berkeman No i did not see anything to change or switch the serial connection settings etc.

Berkeman,
Sorry i just got this message I will read the crib notes to see if I can use any of the suggestions etc.
Thanks!!!

Berkeman, I just ordered one of those RS232 Breakout Led monitor units I will check and see what I get when it arrives etc. I will be traveling til the end of the month so I may not get to test and see what I am getting til the beginning of next month. I really appreciate what you have suggested on my investigation of this unit. Lets please keep this conversation going when I get back next month. Cheers!!!
George

 

[Ducatidragon916]

I finally got back to use the RS232 Breakout led monitor. What I observed is the only light that came on at first power on was green which flickered to red on the Txd led and stayed red until the self check was complete. No other leds were observed to come on. I suspect that the Txd led is waiting for a signal? perhaps there maybe a problem on the interface board!? Not sure what are your thoughts on this? Meanwhile I am contemplating opening up the unit and looking at the chipsets etc to try and determine how it might be controlled etc through this port.

 

[berkeman]

When you use PuTTY or similar terminal emulator program to try to send commands to the peripheral, what do you see? Have you tried using a Null Modem cable or adapter yet?

 

[Ducatidragon916]

Yes I used the PuTTY software and hit keys randomly and notice the lights on the Txd flickering especially when I change the baud rate down to 900 etc. Xon Xoff is selected with raw data set etc. Nothing happend on the other lights etc.

 

[berkeman]

Do you have any other RS-232 controlled instruments that you can try as a baseline? It can help if you can establish comm with some other instrument, and then compare that to what you are seeing with this one.

 

[berkeman]

You could even use two computers with a null modem cable between them, since you should be able to establish RS-232 comm between them fairly easily.

 

[Ducatidragon916]

Do you have any other RS-232 controlled instruments that you can try as a baseline? It can help if you can establish comm with some other instrument, and then compare that to what you are seeing with this one.

Yes that would be a way to cross check on a working unit and can figure out what does what. I haven't tried this perhaps it might be worth a try to see etc. Ill try it and get back here and let you know what I find.

 

[Ducatidragon916]

Do you have any other RS-232 controlled instruments that you can try as a baseline? It can help if you can establish comm with some other instrument, and then compare that to what you are seeing with this one.

I took my Infinicon XTC crystal controller unit and hooked the Serial RS232 connector and observed the same type of interaction of flickering on the Txd led monitoring unit. So it must be something consistent on the interaction appears to be the same. Must require a signal to transmit form the computer to the ubnit to get the unit to engage. I am assuming this of course.

 

[berkeman]

Do you have another computer or laptop that you can hook back-to-back to try some experiments? You will likely need a USB-to-Serial adapter/dongle for your laptop to do this.

 

[Ducatidragon916]

Do you have another computer or laptop that you can hook back-to-back to try some experiments? You will likely need a USB-to-Serial adapter/dongle for your laptop to do this.

I think what i need to do is try to find the original software to see what drivers and readers are being used on the rs232 lines to figure out the operational functions of the Verity device. I know its a big stretch but backwards engineering of this device is driving me bonkers. If i can figure out what type of signals are transmitted and received can probably get me closer to getting this unit to operate and data flowing since it will be used to look at spectra data etc. I believe if i can find the software or an old version somewhere it would be beneficial over just seeing data coming out of the unit and not knowing the parameters or requirements to fully analyze the data itself etc. Your thoughts?

 

[Ducatidragon916]

I think what i need to do is try to find the original software to see what drivers and readers are being used on the rs232 lines to figure out the operational functions of the Verity device. I know its a big stretch but backwards engineering of this device is driving me bonkers. If i can figure out what type of signals are transmitted and received can probably get me closer to getting this unit to operate and data flowing since it will be used to look at spectra data etc. I believe if i can find the software or an old version somewhere it would be beneficial over just seeing data coming out of the unit and not knowing the parameters or requirements to fully analyze the data itself etc. Your thoughts?

The Verity SD100 Unit uses a Software called SpectraView (tm) which I haven't been able to track down. I am hoping possibly someone who has worked with this unit might be willing to either share or explain the possible working relationship between a PC and the Scanning Spectrometers Data linkage in retrieval of usable data or display on the PC etc. This would be ideal. Any thoughts?

 

[Ducatidragon916]

The Verity SD100 Unit uses a Software called SpectraView (tm) which I haven't been able to track down. I am hoping possibly someone who has worked with this unit might be willing to either share or explain the possible working relationship between a PC and the Scanning Spectrometers Data linkage in retrieval of usable data or display on the PC etc. This would be ideal. Any thoughts?

I just found out their is an interface software used to connect the SD100 unit to a labview application etc. This interface is called "SD100 Console Application" This allows the unit to communicate on its stand alone user interface, which is a labview application, In labview its a virtual instrument "VI".The VI facilitates a serial device interface, user parameter entry and data display/manipulation. Configuration parameters and data sets are written/read to/from disk. Still would require the software etc. Anyone with any suggestions are more than welcomed to pipe in as I am all ears!!!!

 

[Ducatidragon916]

I am on the rails trying to decide on the fate of the SD100 Monochromator. The device self checks and appears to be functioning so I may try to sniff and send various commends to decipher what commands do what in the unit since it is self contained unit with detection and point max etc. Anyone who has an idea please pipe in.

 

[Haborix]

This is a bit roundabout, but take a look through the company's patents. Maybe there is something on point in one of the patents. Link: https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Verity+Instruments+Inc

 

[Ducatidragon916]

Haborix,
I tried to do this the other night but you at least had some success so my hats off to you! I am looking now to see if anything comes up as this was built in 1998 -2000 time period etc. Thanks for your effort!

 

[Ducatidragon916]

Do you have another computer or laptop that you can hook back-to-back to try some experiments? You will likely need a USB-to-Serial adapter/dongle for your laptop to do this.

Berkeman,
I finally got the unit to hook up to the RealTerm Serial Capture program and the The leds on the db9 breakout tester light up. it still appears to be waiting on an handshake or trx signal to activate etc. At least i got this far recently as I dusted the unit off the shelf and started my peckings on trying to figure out the data which might be hexa decimal etc. I know the unit has microcontrollers that freeup the PC from any calculations etc which means the unit is able to take simple commands and work etc. i havent gotten further than this and have not been able to get the unit to respond etc.
george

 

[Tom.G]

The SD100 appears on the rare Verity documentation as part of the EP200 series of instruments, and it seems to be long gone.

But here is a series of my searches/results.

https://www.verityinst.com › wp-content › uploads › 2016 › 09 › Applications_Information.pdf

There is one hit on e-bay for the instrument, which seems to be the controller:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/116208139949

A seven page manual (of limited usefulness) is at:
https://www.verityinst.com/wp-content/uploads/Monochromators-3.pdf
It does have pinouts for the serial port on the EP200 instruments.

This search finds a list of their current products:
https://www.google.com/search?q=products+site:www.verityinst.com
-- THE FIRST HIT IS: https://www.verityinst.com/products-solutions
On that doc, click on: column 2, last entry.

Hope this helps!

[edit] Attached a couple pages from Verity site.[/edit]

Cheers,
Tom

p.s. please keep us updated on your progress (or lack thereof).

 

[Ducatidragon916]

Tom,
I appreciate your efforts as I too did the very same investigation with the exact same information. I know that the unit is very well engineered and developed for the time (1998). I sent several emails to the company with a few replies as the inquiry was focused on the GUI software controller side. Verity explained that they don't have access to the software and that part of the companies software engineer has long gone left the company and they do not have the software any longer. I appreciate the efforts at Verity. I feel the unit with the stepper motor controller is still a viable platform to work with and that perhaps and arduino (controller) attached to the stepper motor could be rigged up to retrieve the spectroscopic data required to analyze data. In other words lots of work to put lipstick on a pig. The original plans was to look into UV&VUV that maybe this could be modified to be used in a vacuum setting to observe the higher end spectral region and that the spherical grating is probably the most precious commodity in the unit. Will keep posted of any further progress on this regarding the Verity SD100 Unit.