Mathematically expressing field driven water autoionization

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In summary: While you can solve the Poisson equation for a potential using single variable calculus, it becomes more complicated as you add in derivatives. Additionally, solving the potential for parallel plates requires taking the Laplacian of the potential, which is a function of three variables (x, y, z) and requires multivariable calculus.In summary, the electric field between the molecules and the electrode has to be in order to cause water to ionize. To get the potential (aka the voltage), you would solve the Poisson/Laplace equation for ϕw, given the appropriate boundary conditions. To get the electric field, you take the gradient of the potential (assuming the system is time-invariant).
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HelloCthulhu
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I recently read a paper on using an electric field to drive water autoionizaton. I'm trying to figure out how to use the Laplace equation on pg 9; 4th paragraph; to solve for voltage. I'm also interested in how this equation would change if I replaced the hemispherical tip with a parallel plate. Anyone strongly familiar with this subject matter? Any help is greatly appreciated!
fig 6.png
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https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0009261411011511
 
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  • #2
I haven’t run through the math specifically, but it’ll be the Poisson equation no matter what, but the boundary conditions will change. So for parallel plates, you’ll want to look at the Laplacian in Cartesian coordinates instead of spherical coordinates as your starting point.
 
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Thank you for the response! I still have some questions about the variables. I know how to use Figure 6 to find the values for maximum interfacial field Ew/v or Et/w and water thickness rw/rt, but I'm still not sure what to do with (E), d, or how to solve for ϕw or ϕv.

maths 2.png


In the end, all I'm really trying to figure out is what the electric the field between the molecules and the electrode has to be in order to cause water to ionize. Some of the fundamentals seem comparative to Paschen's Law (Electric Field = voltage x distance). As for adjusting that equation for parallel plates I think I've found an explanation on what it should look like, but I'm still far too ignorant about electrostatics for it to make any real sense to me yet. Thank you for your input so far, I hope you can continue to help me with this.

http://jsa.ece.illinois.edu/ece329/notes/329lect07.pdf
 
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It’s unclear how much background knowledge you have and if this problem is at the right level for you. For instance, I don’t see a ##d## being used as a variable in any of these images. The only ##d##’s I see denote derivatives.

To get the potential (aka the voltage), you would solve the Poisson/Laplace equation for ##\phi##, given the appropriate boundary conditions. I doubt there’s an analytical way to do it without a really simple functional form for ##\epsilon(E)##, but it should be possible to write a code to get a numerical solution. To get the electric field, you take the gradient of the potential (assuming the system is time-invariant).
 
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  • #5
TeethWhitener said:
It’s unclear how much background knowledge you have and if this problem is at the right level for you. For instance, I don’t see a d being used as a variable in any of these images. The only d’s I see denote derivatives.
It's far beyond anything I have experience with. I've solved derivatives in the past, but wasn't familiar with second derivatives. To be honest, I'm in way over my head on these subjects. But even so I'd like to keep working on trying to understand them. Thank you so much for your help.
 
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HelloCthulhu said:
It's far beyond anything I have experience with. I've solved derivatives in the past, but wasn't familiar with second derivatives. To be honest, I'm in way over my head on these subjects. But even so I'd like to keep working on trying to understand them. Thank you so much for your help.
I would advise you to learn single and multivariable calculus as well as vectors before trying to tackle E&M.
 
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FAQ: Mathematically expressing field driven water autoionization

What is field driven water autoionization?

Field driven water autoionization refers to the process by which water molecules are split into positively charged hydrogen ions (H+) and negatively charged hydroxide ions (OH-) when subjected to an external electric field. This process is also known as water dissociation.

How is field driven water autoionization measured?

The extent of water autoionization can be measured using the concept of pH, which is a measure of the concentration of hydrogen ions in a solution. A low pH indicates a high concentration of H+ ions, while a high pH indicates a low concentration of H+ ions.

What factors influence field driven water autoionization?

The autoionization of water is influenced by various factors, including temperature, pressure, and the presence of other substances in the water. Higher temperatures and lower pressures tend to increase the extent of autoionization, while the presence of dissolved salts can decrease it.

How is field driven water autoionization related to conductivity?

Conductivity is a measure of a solution's ability to conduct electricity, and it is directly related to the extent of water autoionization. The higher the concentration of ions in a solution, the higher its conductivity. Therefore, a solution with a higher extent of autoionization will have a higher conductivity.

What are the practical applications of field driven water autoionization?

Field driven water autoionization has various practical applications, including in the fields of electrochemistry, water treatment, and energy storage. It is also essential for understanding the properties and behavior of various substances in aqueous solutions.

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