Medical Physics Routes - Exploring Different Programs

[cassia]

Hi! I wanted to start a new conversation so I won't jump into anyone else's thread. I'm currently preparing for my post grad in physics and I'm considering taking medical physics. I understand that there are different routes for this program (diagnostic, radiation oncology, nuclear medicine) but, as of Google search, these programs seem to vary per country. I come from an Asian country and not many universities offer medical physics program here. In my observation, a lot of load here in treatment planning is done by medical physicists, no dosimetrists. I don't know much about the status of nuclear medicine medical physicists though. Hopefully medical physicists in the forum can enlighten me on this. I'm not YET considering pay here. I am more curious at the moment as to what will I do/my responsibilities be as a medical physicist in diagnostic etc. Thank you!

 

[Choppy]

Hi Cassia and welcome to PF!

This Insights Article should give you some of the answers you're looking for.
And if you haven't already you could check out the ACPSEM web page.

I can offer a perspective as a Canadian medical physicist, though I'm not too familiar with how things are done in Asian countries. Generally speaking, about 80% or more of practicing medical physicists work in radiation oncology. And when it comes to treatment planning a lot can depend on local conditions. In larger centres, it's quite common to have dosimetrists do the bulk of the treatment planning with medical physicists free to work on the more challenging cases. In smaller centres, medical physicists may take on more of the regular planning workload. So a lot can depend on where you end up. And things can change over the course of your career too. I suspect that over the next decade or so, we're going to see a lot of treatment planning tasks become automated and the role of the person responsible for the planning will shift towards quality control. The Insights article above should give you a good idea of what radiation oncology physicists do, but just as if there's anything more specific you want to know about.

Diagnostic imaging physicists are generally responsible for ensuring that imaging equipment is performing as well as it needs to. So they perform a lot of image quality control tests as well as a lot of radiation safety testing. From what I've seen, a lot of them work independently, essentially functioning as consultants. They can also work in research and development either academically or for the bigger imaging companies. A lot of the research in this area now and in the coming years is likely to focus on things like machine learning and computer-assisted diagnosis, automated image deformation and registration, automated organ delineation, imaging dose reduction, and combined modality imaging. I would also note that MRI specialists tend to fall into their own category, just because the MR-imaging process is so different from ionizing-radiation-based modalities. The MRI specialists tend to share the field with biomedical engineers specializing in MRI.

The nuclear medicine specialists that I know specialize in PET and SPECT imaging. Day-to-day, I think a lot of the work may be quite similar to the DI guys, with the added concerns about tracking and storing unsealed sources or radiation. So there's likely a much larger radiation safety component to that field.

 

[gleem]

There are a wide variety of situations in which a medical physicist can find himself/herself . In most hospitals in the US the diagnostic imaging and nuclear medicine are in the same department with the diagnostic physician often covering for the dedicated nuclear medicine physician. If a department is large enough then they might higher a physicist to cover both areas. Smaller hospitals often have inhouse personel like technologist performing daily or weekly routine QA test and contract with a private medical physics service company to perform more extensive quarterly/annual QA tests mandated by regulations and perform a reveiw the quality management program. Larger hospitals may have a physicist on staff if it is financially justifiable or if the physicians can apply enough pressure on the administration. University hospitals usually have dedicated diagnostic and nuclear medicine phsyicists since research would be a part of their duties as well as teaching residents. In small institutions a radiation therapy physicst is often required to perform radiation safety duties for the whole hospital and may even do some diagnostic/nuclear medicine work.

 

[leo1964]

Actually what confuses me most is the existence of master programs in medical physics. The program is set for professional purpose. It equips students with background knowledge and some clinical skills in this field. These M.S. graduates are competitive candidates for the residency program. However, the truth is that most hospital or cancer centers are preferred to hire Ph.D. students for their residency program. And on average we have 100 Ph.D. and 200 M.S. graduates entering the job market every year. And the number of the available residency program is about 150. These master students would have troubles in finding a job as medical physicists if they failed to be enrolled into a residency program. As I know, few hospitals would hire them as junior medical physicists if they don`t have a certificate. And then they have to apply for a Ph.D. program. So why not begin Ph.D. study at the beginning. Two years` graduate program might be a waste of time. GO FOR A Ph.D.! If you want to find a job as a clinical medical physicist.

 

[Choppy]

Actually what confuses me most is the existence of master programs in medical physics. The program is set for professional purpose. It equips students with background knowledge and some clinical skills in this field. These M.S. graduates are competitive candidates for the residency program. However, the truth is that most hospital or cancer centers are preferred to hire Ph.D. students for their residency program. And on average we have 100 Ph.D. and 200 M.S. graduates entering the job market every year. And the number of the available residency program is about 150.

These master students would have troubles in finding a job as medical physicists if they failed to be enrolled into a residency program. As I know, few hospitals would hire them as junior medical physicists if they don`t have a certificate. And then they have to apply for a Ph.D. program. So why not begin Ph.D. study at the beginning.

Two years` graduate program might be a waste of time.

GO FOR A Ph.D.! If you want to find a job as a clinical medical physicist.

One of the main reasons for the emphasis on MSc programs in the field is that there's a demand from employers for them. For many clinical positions in medical physics, particularly in smaller centres, you don't often need a PhD. The position involves supporting clinical operations. For these types of positions, MSc candidates are often preferred because they tend to be perceived as lower cost, less of a flight risk, and will do more than the bare minimum to keep the clinic running while they run a research program on the side. (Lots of PhDs are in fact happy in such positions, but that tends to be the perception.)

Unfortunately you've highlighted a problem that the medical physics community has been wrestling with for the better part of a decade now. Because of the residency bottleneck, a lot of students end up sticking around for the PhD that otherwise wouldn't. And some who would have ended up with very good careers otherwise, end up leaving the profession.

There have been efforts to stifle this. A number of residency positions have been set up to hire MSc graduates and get them into clinics where they're needed. And this was a part of the reason for setting up the residency matching program too.

For a student deciding on which path to take, I wouldn't automatically discard the MSc options. If the residency doesn't work out, you can often get into a PhD program afterwards. And since you've done your coursework and are already familiar with the field, the PhD tends to go faster. Sometimes PhD projects grow out of MSc projects. So you really don't end up losing that much time compared to students who enrolled in the PhD in the first place if you do it right.

All of that said, I wouldn't count on getting into the profession with an MSc these days. If it works out, great. But there is a good chance you'll need to get through the PhD eventually.