Michael Moore's Sicko Banned in Cuba, Too Rosy

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In summary, Cuba banned Michael Moore's 2007 documentary "Sicko" due to fears of a popular backlash against the "mythically" positive portrayal of their healthcare system. However, the film was actually shown on Cuban national TV and in theaters, contradicting the claim of a ban. Some believe this was propaganda aimed at discrediting the film, while others argue that the Cubans may have expected to benefit from the promised Cuban healthcare reform. Overall, the banning of the film and the reaction to it reveal flaws in both the Cuban and American healthcare systems.
  • #36


Mathnomalous said:
I think M. Moore is a liar and a hypocrite (why would I have to pay money to see your film about how much capitalism sucks, Mr. Moore? :rolleyes:). Still, I do not understand why some US official in La Habana felt it necessary to spread lies about a liar and I simply shake my head at irresponsible news outlets trying to rush news out without fact-checking. All these news outlets needed to do was Google "sicko prohibido cuba" to fact-check that info.
How do you know the cables are lies, and that you are simply looking at two different places in time?
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3044270&postcount=21
 
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  • #37


mheslep said:
Nihilism? I think you'll find that's illusory and a dead end.

Wow, I am nowhere near a nihilist... that's reading something into what I said that just isn't there. I can accept that the people who WANT political power, are willing and able to get it, tend to be on the sociopath8ic end of things. As for creeps...

Anyway, the result may not be paradise, but I don't see how deconstructing society and expecting the same to somehow NOT re-emerge naturally is naive and a bit mad. Why is it so hard to believe I'm exactly what I say: skeptical, wary, but not an ideologue either. Maybe as one of the truly arch conservatives here you simply dislike what you see as a liberal view and feel the need to label it?
 
  • #38
mheslep said:
How do you know the cables are lies, and that you are simply looking at two different places in time?
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3044270&postcount=21
How about a story from the AP back in 2007?

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2007/06/16/2007-06-16_moores_sicko_gets_nod_from_cuba.html

Cuba's health minister said Friday that American filmmaker Michael Moore's documentary "Sicko" highlights the human values of the island's communist-run government.

Moore flew to Cuba in March to obtain health care for three ailing Sept. 11 rescue workers as part of the documentary, which calls for an overhaul of America's health care system. The trip has been the subject of a U.S. federal investigation for possible violations of the U.S. trade embargo restricting travel to Cuba.

Speaking to reporters at a Havana event, Health Minister Jose Ramon Balaguer did not say if he had seen the movie or was simply relying on snippets that have aired on international television. "Sicko" debuted at the Cannes Film Festival in May, but does not open in U.S. theaters until June 29.

Still, Balaguer said that in the movie "Moore explained his reasons why those patients were attended to in our country," adding that Cuba is "always open to cases, that, from a human point of view, need our public health services."

He said the film does not serve to "promote" Cuban health care, but conceded "there can be no doubt this documentary by a personality like Mr. Michael Moore helps promote the profoundly human principles of Cuban society."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2007/06/16/2007-06-16_moores_sicko_gets_nod_from_cuba.html#ixzz18cFIaFse

One would have to concoct a pretty complex conspiracy in order to believe that the State Department cable was accurate and that Sicko was banned in Cuba.
 
  • #39
turbo-1 said:
How about a story from the AP back in 2007?

http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2007/06/16/2007-06-16_moores_sicko_gets_nod_from_cuba.html



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2007/06/16/2007-06-16_moores_sicko_gets_nod_from_cuba.html#ixzz18cFIaFse

One would have to concoct a pretty complex conspiracy in order to believe that the State Department cable was accurate and that Sicko was banned in Cuba.

"Snippets" is not exactly a smoking gun?
 
  • #40


turbo-1 said:
How about a story from the AP back in 2007?
How about it?


One would have to concoct a pretty complex conspiracy in order to believe that the State Department cable was accurate and that Sicko was banned in Cuba.
Was banned ... when? Again, the possibility that the cable is referring to a different point in time does not require any conspiracy theory.
 
  • #41


I think it was banned for the graphic sex scene with Moore and a young Cuban lad. *deadpan*
 
  • #42


nismaratwork said:
I think it was banned for the graphic sex scene with Moore and a young Cuban lad. *deadpan*
That's how the lad got his surgery paid for. Did you think it was really free?
 
  • #43
Has no one bothered to look? It wasn't banned in cuba, ever.
here is the article in the state sponsored newspaper...surely a piece of propaganda... I just couldn't figure out what it would be for.

http://www.5septiembre.cu/index.php/internacionales/47-noticias/12821-iviva-wikileaks-qsickoq-no-fue-prohibido-en-cuba

and if you don't speak Spanish.

WikiLeaks did something amazing yesterday and issued a classified cable to the State Department was, in part, about me and my film, "Sicko" .
It is an awesome look to the Orwellian nature of how state bureaucrats spin their lies and trying to recreate reality (I guess to appease their bosses and tell them what they want to hear).
The date is January 31, 2008. Just days after Sicko was nominated for an Oscar as Best Documentary. This must have gone mad at someone in the Bush State Department (the Treasury Department was immediately notified me that they were investigating what laws could be broken by taking three of the first rescue workers to Cuba on November 11 to be given the care that was denied in the United States).
Former health insurance executive, Wendell Potter , recently revealed that the insurance industry, which had decided to spend millions to go against me and, if necessary , "Michael Moore to push off a cliff" - had begun working with the anti-Castro Cubans in Miami to get them to talk to who slandered my film .
Thus, the January 31, 2008, a State Department official stationed in Havana took an invented story and sent it back to its headquarters in Washington. This is what they suggested:


XXXXXXXXXXXX said that Cuban authorities have banned Michael Moore's documentary, "Sicko," to be subversive. Although the intention of the film is to discredit the health system in the U.S., highlighting the excellence of the Cuban system, said the regime knows that the film is a myth and does not want to risk a popular backlash to show Cubans facilities that are clearly not available for the vast majority of them.


Sounds convincing huh? Only one problem: all the people of Cuba saw the film on national television on April 25, 2008! The Cubans liked the movie became one of those rare American movies that received a theatrical distribution Cuba. Personally, I took a copy of 35 mm reached the Instituto de Cine de La Habana.
The screening of "Sicko" was held in cities throughout the country. . But the secret cable said that Cubans are banned from seeing my movie. Hmmm.
We also know from other U.S. secret document "The disappointment of the [masses in Cuba] has spread to all provinces" and that "the whole province of East is seething with hatred" against the Castro regime. There is a large active underground rebellion, and "workers easily give all necessary support" to everyone involved in a "subtle sabotage" against the government. The morale is terrible in all branches of the armed forces, and if war the army "will not fight." Tremendo - this cable is hot!
Of course, the U.S. secret cable is 31 March 1961 , three weeks before Cuba kicked some *** in the Bay of Pigs.
The U.S. government has been happening these documents "secret" to himself in the last fifty years, explaining in minute detail how terrible is the situation in Cuba and how the Cubans are suffering in silence so that we can go back and take control. Do not know why we write these cables, I guess it just makes us feel better about ourselves. (Anyone curious can find a museum full of wish-fulfillment leads the U.S. in the website of the National Security Archive.)
So what to do with a fake cable almost "secret", especially one that involves you and the film? Well, you expect a responsible newspaper to investigate and to shout from the rooftops what you discover.
But WikiLeaks was yesterday released on cable "Sicko" in Cuba to the media - and what they did to him? They did move as if it were true! Here's the headline in the newspaper The Guardian : "WikiLeaks: Cuba Sicko banned by describing" a mythical 'health system. The authorities feared that images of gleaming hospitals in the film of Michael Moore, nominated for an Oscar, provoked a reaction popular. "
And none of a thorough investigation to see if Cuba had banned the film really! In fact, quite the contrary. The right-wing press began to have a field day reporting a lie ( Andy Levy , Fox - twice - RevistaReason and Hot Air , and a lot of blogs ). Unfortunately, even BoingBoing and friends of The Nation wrote about it without skepticism. So here we have to WikiLeaks, which has been on line to find and release these wires to the press - and mainstream journalists, once again too lazy to lift a finger, pointing and clicking the mouse to access Nexis or search through Google and see if Cuba really "banned the film." If only a reporter would have done this, this is what was found:


June 16, 2007 Saturday 1:41 GMT [ie seven months before the fake cable]

HEADLINE: Cuban Health Minister said that Michael Moore's film Sicko shows "human values" of a communist system.

Byline: By ANDREA RODRIGUEZ, Associated Press Writer

LA HABANA

Health Minister Jose Ramon Balaguer Cuba, said on Friday that U.S. documentary filmmaker Michael Moore "Sicko" highlights the human values of the communist government of the island ... "There can be no doubt that this documentary is a personality like Mr. Michael Moore helps promote the profoundly human principles of Cuban society.


How about this little news of April 25, 2008 in Cubasi.cu (Google translation):


Sicko premiered in Cuba 25/04/2008
The documentary Sicko, American filmmaker Michael Moore, which is about the deplorable state of U.S. health care system will be released today at 5:50 pm, in the space Cubavisión Roundtable and the Education Channel.


Then there is this from JuventudRebelde.cu . Or the Cuban publishing . There is even a long clip of Cuba section that appears in 'Sicko' on the multimedia page website Cubasi.cu in the channel Roundtable .
OK, we know that the media are lazy and most will not work. But the biggest problem here is how our government seemed to be in collusion with the health insurance industry to destroy a film that could lend a hand to induce what the Cubans are in a third world country ravaged by poverty: health free and universal. And because they have it and we do not, Cuba has a rate of infant mortality lower than ours , their life expectancy is only seven months below ours, and, according to the WHO, are ranked just two places behind the richest country in the world in terms of quality medical care.
This is history, so you know the mainstream media and the enemies of right.
Now that you have presented the facts, what are you going to do about it? Going to attack me because my film was screened at the Cuban state television? Or do they attack me because my film projected on Cuban state television?
Have to choose one, can not be both.
And since the facts show that the film was screened on national television and in cinemas, I think it's better than attacking me for having my film screened in Cuba.

WikiLeaks Viva!
 
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  • #44
christopherV said:
Has no one bothered to look? It wasn't banned in cuba, ever.
here is the article in the state sponsored newspaper...surely a piece of propaganda... I just couldn't figure out what it would be for.

http://www.5septiembre.cu/index.php/internacionales/47-noticias/12821-iviva-wikileaks-qsickoq-no-fue-prohibido-en-cuba

and if you don't speak Spanish.

WikiLeaks did something amazing yesterday and issued a classified cable to the State Department was, in part, about me and my film, "Sicko" .
It is an awesome look to the Orwellian nature of how state bureaucrats spin their lies and trying to recreate reality (I guess to appease their bosses and tell them what they want to hear).
The date is January 31, 2008. Just days after Sicko was nominated for an Oscar as Best Documentary. This must have gone mad at someone in the Bush State Department (the Treasury Department was immediately notified me that they were investigating what laws could be broken by taking three of the first rescue workers to Cuba on November 11 to be given the care that was denied in the United States).
Former health insurance executive, Wendell Potter , recently revealed that the insurance industry, which had decided to spend millions to go against me and, if necessary , "Michael Moore to push off a cliff" - had begun working with the anti-Castro Cubans in Miami to get them to talk to who slandered my film .
Thus, the January 31, 2008, a State Department official stationed in Havana took an invented story and sent it back to its headquarters in Washington. This is what they suggested:


XXXXXXXXXXXX said that Cuban authorities have banned Michael Moore's documentary, "Sicko," to be subversive. Although the intention of the film is to discredit the health system in the U.S., highlighting the excellence of the Cuban system, said the regime knows that the film is a myth and does not want to risk a popular backlash to show Cubans facilities that are clearly not available for the vast majority of them.


Sounds convincing huh? Only one problem: all the people of Cuba saw the film on national television on April 25, 2008! The Cubans liked the movie became one of those rare American movies that received a theatrical distribution Cuba. Personally, I took a copy of 35 mm reached the Instituto de Cine de La Habana.
The screening of "Sicko" was held in cities throughout the country. . But the secret cable said that Cubans are banned from seeing my movie. Hmmm.
We also know from other U.S. secret document "The disappointment of the [masses in Cuba] has spread to all provinces" and that "the whole province of East is seething with hatred" against the Castro regime. There is a large active underground rebellion, and "workers easily give all necessary support" to everyone involved in a "subtle sabotage" against the government. The morale is terrible in all branches of the armed forces, and if war the army "will not fight." Tremendo - this cable is hot!
Of course, the U.S. secret cable is 31 March 1961 , three weeks before Cuba kicked some *** in the Bay of Pigs.
The U.S. government has been happening these documents "secret" to himself in the last fifty years, explaining in minute detail how terrible is the situation in Cuba and how the Cubans are suffering in silence so that we can go back and take control. Do not know why we write these cables, I guess it just makes us feel better about ourselves. (Anyone curious can find a museum full of wish-fulfillment leads the U.S. in the website of the National Security Archive.)
So what to do with a fake cable almost "secret", especially one that involves you and the film? Well, you expect a responsible newspaper to investigate and to shout from the rooftops what you discover.
But WikiLeaks was yesterday released on cable "Sicko" in Cuba to the media - and what they did to him? They did move as if it were true! Here's the headline in the newspaper The Guardian : "WikiLeaks: Cuba Sicko banned by describing" a mythical 'health system. The authorities feared that images of gleaming hospitals in the film of Michael Moore, nominated for an Oscar, provoked a reaction popular. "
And none of a thorough investigation to see if Cuba had banned the film really! In fact, quite the contrary. The right-wing press began to have a field day reporting a lie ( Andy Levy , Fox - twice - RevistaReason and Hot Air , and a lot of blogs ). Unfortunately, even BoingBoing and friends of The Nation wrote about it without skepticism. So here we have to WikiLeaks, which has been on line to find and release these wires to the press - and mainstream journalists, once again too lazy to lift a finger, pointing and clicking the mouse to access Nexis or search through Google and see if Cuba really "banned the film." If only a reporter would have done this, this is what was found:


June 16, 2007 Saturday 1:41 GMT [ie seven months before the fake cable]

HEADLINE: Cuban Health Minister said that Michael Moore's film Sicko shows "human values" of a communist system.

Byline: By ANDREA RODRIGUEZ, Associated Press Writer

LA HABANA

Health Minister Jose Ramon Balaguer Cuba, said on Friday that U.S. documentary filmmaker Michael Moore "Sicko" highlights the human values of the communist government of the island ... "There can be no doubt that this documentary is a personality like Mr. Michael Moore helps promote the profoundly human principles of Cuban society.


How about this little news of April 25, 2008 in Cubasi.cu (Google translation):


Sicko premiered in Cuba 25/04/2008
The documentary Sicko, American filmmaker Michael Moore, which is about the deplorable state of U.S. health care system will be released today at 5:50 pm, in the space Cubavisión Roundtable and the Education Channel.


Then there is this from JuventudRebelde.cu . Or the Cuban publishing . There is even a long clip of Cuba section that appears in 'Sicko' on the multimedia page website Cubasi.cu in the channel Roundtable .
OK, we know that the media are lazy and most will not work. But the biggest problem here is how our government seemed to be in collusion with the health insurance industry to destroy a film that could lend a hand to induce what the Cubans are in a third world country ravaged by poverty: health free and universal. And because they have it and we do not, Cuba has a rate of infant mortality lower than ours , their life expectancy is only seven months below ours, and, according to the WHO, are ranked just two places behind the richest country in the world in terms of quality medical care.
This is history, so you know the mainstream media and the enemies of right.
Now that you have presented the facts, what are you going to do about it? Going to attack me because my film was screened at the Cuban state television? Or do they attack me because my film projected on Cuban state television?
Have to choose one, can not be both.
And since the facts show that the film was screened on national television and in cinemas, I think it's better than attacking me for having my film screened in Cuba.

WikiLeaks Viva!

Welcome to PF Michael Moore? (Don't worry about the rules - there's probably no need to support anything you post.)

If that's really you Michael, I have a request (make it a suggestion) for your next film. Why don't you do an in-depth, item by item, comparison of the benefits of the US welfare system to the Cuban system. Let's not limit the focus to medical - it doesn't tell the whole story.

Instead, why not look at housing, food, education, transportation, communication, sanitation, utilities, legal representation, prison conditions, unemployment, jobs training, farm subsidy, disability income, retirement income, investment protection, national security, and property rights. Basically, take EVERY department of the US and compare it to it's Cuban equivalent. I'm quite sure if you take your time, do extensive research and present an honest look at both systems - average people in both countries will be surprised and impressed with your work.
 
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  • #45


WhoWee said:
Welcome to PF Michael Moore? (Don't worry about the rules - there's probably no need to support anything you post.)

If that's really you Michael, I have a request (make it a suggestion) for your next film. Why don't you do an in-depth, item by item, comparison of the benefits of the US welfare system to the Cuban system. Let's not limit the focus to medical - it doesn't tell the whole story.

Instead, why not look at housing, food, education, transportation, communication, sanitation, utilities, legal representation, prison conditions, unemployment, jobs training, farm subsidy, disability income, retirement income, investment protection, national security, and property rights. Basically, take EVERY department of the US and compare it to it's Cuban equivalent. I'm quite sure if you take your time, do extensive research and present an honest look at both systems - average people in both countries will be surprised and impressed with your work.

Not Moore... Chris just isn't very good about formatting quotes. The "my film" bit is part of a quote from Moore, as is most of what was posted... just not in quotes.
 
  • #46


talk2glenn said:
[...] This sounds like satire, I know, but apparently its true. Too rich.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/17/wikileaks-cuba-banned-sicko


This won't be news to anyone with half an ounce of sense, [...]

The Guardian have removed their story from this link and issued the following correction:

Contrary to a claim made in a leaked US diplomatic cable whose contents we reported, Sicko – a documentary by film-maker Michael Moore – was not banned in Cuba. The film, which examines US healthcare through comparisons with some countries' publicly funded systems, including Cuba's, was in fact shown in film theatres throughout the island and on national TV.


Here is the original cable:

http://213.251.145.96/cable/2008/01/08HAVANA103.html

Here is the Guardian's current take: WikiLeaks cables: Michael Moore film Sicko was 'not banned' in Cuba. It seems to be pieced together mostly from the cable itself and Michael Moore's http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/viva-wikileaks .
 
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  • #47


nismaratwork said:
Not Moore... Chris just isn't very good about formatting quotes. The "my film" bit is part of a quote from Moore, as is most of what was posted... just not in quotes.

Too bad, I thought my idea for a movie might cause him to find the truth.
 
  • #48


WhoWee said:
Too bad, I thought my idea for a movie might cause him to find the truth.

Moore couldn't find truth if it funded his movie, called it, "I Found The Truth: The Movie". That guy is not interested in much beyond self-aggrandizement from what I can see.
 

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