Minkowski Spacetime vs Euclidean Spacetime

In summary, Minkowski spacetime is a four-dimensional framework that combines three spatial dimensions with time as a fourth dimension, essential for understanding the theory of relativity. It incorporates the concept of time as a dimension similar to space, leading to the idea of spacetime intervals that remain invariant across different inertial frames. In contrast, Euclidean spacetime is a three-dimensional space characterized by the familiar geometric principles of Euclidean geometry, where distances are measured using the Pythagorean theorem. While Euclidean spacetime is suitable for classical mechanics, it fails to account for relativistic effects, making Minkowski spacetime more appropriate for describing the behavior of objects at high velocities and in strong gravitational fields.
  • #1
bobrubino
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1
Which one would you use in order to map out a black hole and its connection to a white hole?
 
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  • #2
bobrubino said:
Which one would you use in order to map out a black hole and its connection to a white hole?
Neither.
 
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  • #3
Neither.

First of all, there is no such thing as Euclidean spacetime so that’s out. Second, Minkowski spacetime is a flat affine spacetime and doesn’t contain anything like a black hole. What you are looking for is Schwarzschild spacetime.
 
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  • #4
thanks
 
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  • #5
You can draw a thing called a Kruskal diagram on a Euclidean plane, which is a map of the maximally extended Schwarzschild spacetime, which is probably what you are talking about (the wiki article on Kruskal-Szekeres coordinates is pretty good). But it's important to realise that the Euclidean representation is honest but not accurate. No representation of spacetime on a Euclidean plane can really be accurate because there's no minus sign in Pythagoras' theorem and there always is one in the equivalent thing in locally-Minkowski spacetimes. No matter if you try to hide it by using imaginary coordinates - the effects of it are still there.
 
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  • #6
Ibix said:
But it's important to realise that the Euclidean representation is honest but not accurate.
Honest since it is an one-to-one mapping of a region of spacetime.
 
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  • #7
cianfa72 said:
Honest since it is an one-to-one mapping of a region of spacetime.
Well, I just meant "honest" in contrast to the "marble on a dip in a sheet", which is hopelessly misleading for almost anything. Kruskal diagrams are actually working tools, but the interpretation remains non-trivial.
 
  • #8
Ibix said:
it's important to realise that the Euclidean representation is honest but not accurate
That is an excellent way to put it
 
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  • #9
Ibix said:
Kruskal diagrams are actually working tools, but the interpretation remains non-trivial.
KS diagrams (region I - IV) cover the entire spacetime manifold ?
 
  • #10
cianfa72 said:
KS diagrams (region I - IV) cover the entire spacetime manifold ?
Ideally they cover the entirety of two dimensions of it, yes. An actual diagram only covers a finite region unless you know where to buy an infinite sized piece of paper. Penrose diagrams cover the whole of the same two dimensions on a finite piece of paper, at the expense of yet more coordinate transforms.

Edit: although the coordinates are called Kruskal-Szekeres I believe the diagram is attributed to Kruskal alone. So it's not a KS diagram.
 
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  • #11
Ibix said:
I believe the diagram is attributed to Kruskal alone. So it's not a KS diagram.
However I believe it is a complete diagram of the underlying Schwarzschild spacetime manifold.
 
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  • #12
cianfa72 said:
I believe it is a complete diagram of the underlying Schwarzschild spacetime manifold.
It is a complete diagram of a 2D subspace of the maximal analytic extension of the Schwarzschild spacetime manifold. The 2D subspace is the one that is orthogonal to the 2-sphere subspace of the manifold that is induced by spherical symmetry. So every point on the diagram that is within the manifold (i.e., within the boundaries given by the two singularities) represents a 2-sphere.
 
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FAQ: Minkowski Spacetime vs Euclidean Spacetime

What is the main difference between Minkowski spacetime and Euclidean spacetime?

The main difference between Minkowski spacetime and Euclidean spacetime is the nature of their metrics. Minkowski spacetime, used in the theory of relativity, has a metric with one time dimension and three spatial dimensions, characterized by the signature (-+++). In contrast, Euclidean spacetime has four spatial dimensions with a metric signature of (++++), meaning all dimensions are treated equally and there is no distinction between time and space.

Why is Minkowski spacetime important in the theory of relativity?

Minkowski spacetime is crucial in the theory of relativity because it provides a geometric interpretation of spacetime where the effects of special relativity, such as time dilation and length contraction, can be naturally described. It allows for the unification of space and time into a single four-dimensional continuum, making it possible to describe the invariant interval between events and the behavior of objects moving at relativistic speeds.

Can Euclidean spacetime be used to describe relativistic phenomena?

Euclidean spacetime is not suitable for describing relativistic phenomena because it lacks the distinction between time and space that is essential for capturing the effects predicted by the theory of relativity. The Euclidean metric does not accommodate the invariant speed of light or the causal structure necessary to describe events in a relativistic framework.

How does the concept of distance differ in Minkowski and Euclidean spacetimes?

In Minkowski spacetime, the concept of distance is defined by the spacetime interval, which can be positive, negative, or zero, depending on the relative positions of events in time and space. This interval is invariant under Lorentz transformations. In Euclidean spacetime, distance is always a positive quantity calculated using the Pythagorean theorem, treating all four dimensions symmetrically and without distinguishing between space and time.

What role does the metric signature play in distinguishing Minkowski and Euclidean spacetimes?

The metric signature is fundamental in distinguishing between Minkowski and Euclidean spacetimes. Minkowski spacetime has a metric signature of (-+++), indicating one time dimension and three spatial dimensions, leading to the unique properties of time and causality in relativity. Euclidean spacetime, with a metric signature of (++++), treats all four dimensions as spatial, which is suitable for different mathematical and physical contexts but not for describing relativistic effects.

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