Move from technician to scientist

[Alchem]

[Post edited by a Mentor]

Hello

I have a PhD and I did a post doc. I took a job a scientific associate in a laboratory where we offer services to visiting scientists. The experimental end station has staff scientists who operate the equipment and administrate the coordination of time used for each experimenter among many other things.

While in my position I deal with more of the menial stuff, buy parts, maintenance of certain equipment, cleaning, I give feedback on certain experiments related to my previous specialty and general support to the visiting experiments ( if something breaks I help, or if they need to find a device, etc.). I am very good at my work and get accolades from the visiting scientists and I am known for being very helpful around.
I am getting a lot of exposure to the experiments, to how the equipment operates and to the scientific techniques and I understand the science.

Now they are looking to fill a position for a staff scientist, for which I feel I'm qualified even tough I don't have published papers to show.
I'm capable of operating the equipment and perform the experiments.

Any advice on how to deal with the conundrum of needing to be in papers while being in a position that does not help you in getting into papers? I am looking for strategies and tips on how to publish while being in a technical position and on how to move from being a technician to being a scientist.

 

[Haborix]

Are you certain the staff scientist position requires a publication record? For this particular opening, I don't see how you can fix the paper problem, assuming it is one, before it gets filled. Have you considered just applying for the position? The need to publish papers may turn out to be moot if you got the job.

 

[gleem]

Don't you provide technical services to staff scientists too?

 

[Alchem]

Don't you provide technical services to staff scientists too?

Yes, I work in the endstation where the staff scientists work, We all together are the scientific staff for the said end station. So I help with whatever is needed for the endstation, coming from the staff scientist and/or the visiting scientist.

 

[Alchem]

Are you certain the staff scientist position requires a publication record? For this particular opening, I don't see how you can fix the paper problem, assuming it is one, before it gets filled. Have you considered just applying for the position? The need to publish papers may turn out to be moot if you got the job.

Yes, you are correct. I don't expect to solve the problem in time for this position. I want to be prepared for when another position opens. Sadly, I would like to stay where I am but I have to choose between being a technician with a PhD and seeing others getting the "scientist" position or moving somewhere else. (You get treated differently because of that and some people are not shy about letting me know about it.)

The need for papers requirement came from my supervisor which is also the the person recruiting the new hire. From my experience here, it is the case that they hire people with a record of publications. Which I find somewhat confusing, because once hired I don't see them publishing as first authors anymore.

 

[Haborix]

Sorry to beat what may be a dead horse, but did you specifically ask if a publication record is necessary or is it a general requirement listed in the job advertisement? From what you have said, it seems like you would be a strong candidate for the position. As a plus, they know you are competent and do good work, so they would mitigate some risk by promoting you. I think you've got some room to advocate for yourself here.

For your own publication record, I assume you'd have to find some collaborator at a local university or university that uses the facilities. But hopefully others will chime in with more helpful suggestions.

 

[CrysPhys]

The need for papers requirement came from my supervisor which is also the the person recruiting the new hire. From my experience here, it is the case that they hire people with a record of publications. Which I find somewhat confusing, because once hired I don't see them publishing as first authors anymore.

Yours is a special situation. Have you spoken to your supervisor directly? I.e., let them know that you would like the job? If so, what was their response?

 

[Alchem]

Sorry to beat what may be a dead horse, but did you specifically ask if a publication record is necessary or is it a general requirement listed in the job advertisement? From what you have said, it seems like you would be a strong candidate for the position. As a plus, they know you are competent and do good work, so they would mitigate some risk by promoting you. I think you've got some room to advocate for yourself here.

For your own publication record, I assume you'd have to find some collaborator at a local university or university that uses the facilities. But hopefully others will chime in with more helpful suggestions.

Thanks for digging in, I just heard from the person hiring that it requires published papers. That is what triggered me to seek some advice. The position has not been posted yet. I'm sure that they may be exceptions but also I have heard the same requirement from other hiring personnel at other sections.

 

[Alchem]

Yours is a special situation. Have you spoken to your supervisor directly? I.e., let them know that you would like the job? If so, what was their response?

I'm on the fence about asking directly because of the implications of signaling that I'm not happy where I am, and that I'm looking to move to another job. Due to certain circumstances, I need to keep this job no matter what. I'll show my cards, when I'm confortable that I can move to another position. So my plan is to get some new papers my under my belt.

 

[gleem]

Are you interested in the research the staff scientists are doing? If you are have you talked to them about participating in that research? I do not think you will fired for showing such interest since you are well-appreciated. They might be thinking that you are happy doing what you do. You would still have to do what you are doing and volunteer your services on your own time.

 

[CrysPhys]

I'm on the fence about asking directly because of the implications of signaling that I'm not happy where I am, and that I'm looking to move to another job. Due to certain circumstances, I need to keep this job no matter what. I'll show my cards, when I'm confortable that I can move to another position. So my plan is to get some new papers on my under my belt.

The need for papers requirement came from my supervisor which is also the the person recruiting the new hire. From my experience here, it is the case that they hire people with a record of publications. Which I find somewhat confusing, because once hired I don't see them publishing as first authors anymore.

<<Emphasis added.>> Just to clarify: Not only do you need new publications, but you also need new publications as first author. Is that correct? I don't see how you plan to do that.

If I understand you correctly, your lab provides contract services. In which case, your clients (the visiting researchers) typically would not include even the staff scientists at your lab as n-th authors on papers (special exceptions apply). How would you, a tech, not a staff scientist, expect to be included as an n-th author? One exception would be, e.g., a barter transaction. E.g., a visiting scientist has no funds to pay for lab services, but agrees to include lab staff as collaborators. Another exception is where the lab develops a novel (not routine) analytical technique for a specific instance.

But to be first author, you would need to lead original research at your lab; e.g., develop a new analytical technique. How would you get lab resources to do that? You would still need the support of a supervisor (yours or another) at your lab.

 

[Alchem]

<<Emphasis added.>> Just to clarify: Not only do you need new publications, but you also need new publications as first author. Is that correct? I don't see how you plan to do that.

If I understand you correctly, your lab provides contract services. In which case, your clients (the visiting researchers) typically would not include even the staff scientists at your lab as n-th authors on papers (special exceptions apply). How would you, a tech, not a staff scientist, expect to be included as an n-th author? One exception would be, e.g., a barter transaction. E.g., a visiting scientist has no funds to pay for lab services, but agrees to include lab staff as collaborators. Another exception is where the lab develops a novel (not routine) analytical technique for a specific instance.

But to be first author, you would need to lead original research at your lab; e.g., develop a new analytical technique. How would you get lab resources to do that?

If the staff scientists are not first authors on the papers they appear, then I don't have be first author either. That's why I mention it, because it would be an awful method of gatekeeping. As long as I have a significant scientific participation I'm good. Regarding our services, they are free. The idea of a novel method is a viable possibility and one that I have considered.

There must be a way to make it happen or I'll make one out.

 

[CrysPhys]

It does not have to be first author. Our services are free. As long as I have a significant scientific participation I'm good.

So if you look at your peers (similar techs at your level) in your lab, how many have been included as authors in publications? How many publications do you think you will need for a compelling application, and how long will it take you to reach that number?"

 

[Alchem]

So if you look at your peers (similar techs at your level) in your lab, how many have been included as authors in publications? How many publications do you think you will need for a compelling application, and how long will it take you to reach that number?"

None of them have PhDs. My aim is 2, just to show that I'm on the game, but there is no ceiling. I see it this way, either they will take notice or someone else will. In the long run, I'll be doing science even though I don't have the title of "scientist". Which I am no matter what title I have, or what other people think.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I need to keep this job no matter what.

Honestly, all the rest of this thread is irrelevant. You are counting on your boss not knowing this, or not acting on this. Bosses tend not to be this clueless, and while they might not know the background behind this, they know the important thing - they don't have to raise a finger to keep you.

Why should they promote you? They can hire someone else and get them AND you. From their perspective, that's a great outcome. Sure it doesn't help you - but they don't need to help you. That's not their job.

 

[Alchem]

Are you interested in the research the staff scientists are doing? If you are have you talked to them about participating in that research? I do not think you will fired for showing such interest since you are well-appreciated. They might be thinking that you are happy doing what you do. You would still have to do what you are doing and volunteer your services on your own time.

The answer to that is, "It's complicated". Technically I do what they do. Obviously they have way more experience and knowledge.

[Post edited by a Mentor]

 

[Alchem]

Honestly, all the rest of this thread is irrelevant. You are counting on your boss not knowing this, or not acting on this. Bosses tend not to be this clueless, and while they might not know the background behind this, they know the important thing - they don't have to raise a finger to keep you.

Why should they promote you? They can hire someone else and get them AND you. From their perspective, that's a great outcome. Sure it doesn't help you - but they don't need to help you. That's not their job.

I don't pretend that any one will help me. Nobody owes me anything. That is why I want to do the necessary work and then ask for a promotion. After that, if they don't promote me after having what is needed and having asked, I will move on.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Yes, but you need to look at it from the organization's perspective. I know what you want. What do they want? If they have you - no matter what - why do they need to do anything extra? You have no leverage.

 

[berkeman]

Thread is closed temporarily for Moderation...

 

[berkeman]

After a few edits, this thread will remain closed now. Thank you to all who have been helping the OP with their questions.