My lost dream of being a mathematician

[Student100]

I don't think so. My wife and I got 4 degrees from that much, and just graduated in the past couple years. My undergrad cost 20k from a large school. Tens of thousands of grads came out of that school with the same price tag. People who take out that much in loans for a degree do so to subsidize a standard of living and avoid working. Two years at community college and two years at university is far less than that. I am now working on a third degree at a different, large school and it costs 30k for 4 years (but I am looking to take 3 years since I have classes already).


None of this is relevant to the OP though, unless he/she comes to the US to study. I assume that such affordability and ease of access to loans is not to be had in Egypt.

Well you're doing better than most, many students pay that in one year in tuition + room and board, it gets even worse for private universities and out of state students.

 

[TheAustrian]

I don't think so. My wife and I got 4 degrees from that much, and just graduated in the past couple years. My undergrad cost 20k from a large school. Tens of thousands of grads came out of that school with the same price tag. People who take out that much in loans for a degree do so to subsidize a standard of living and avoid working. Two years at community college and two years at university is far less than that. I am now working on a third degree at a different, large school and it costs 30k for 4 years (but I am looking to take 3 years since I have classes already).


None of this is relevant to the OP though, unless he/she comes to the US to study. I assume that such affordability and ease of access to loans is not to be had in Egypt.

Working while studying full-time is near enough impossible in some cases. Different universities present different amount of workload, and certain subjects like Mathematics are very demanding in any case. Getting excellent grades and working at the same time, in many cases is impossible. Studying at a University is considered to be a full-time activity (and at times it can itself extend beyond that). Working while studying drops the average grade down one category, there are of course exceptions to that (both in a positive and negative way).

Your situation was a unique situation which can not be applied in a general case. I am convinced that most people have to take much more than 30k in loans. You have probably been more lucky (or resourceful?) than the average.

Not many countries give much support to students, and to be fair, without any offense to Egypt, I doubt that they are in such a financial state which allows them to subsidize the financial costs of university students, and relatively speaking, it is probably as expensive for them to study as it is for most people in their respective countries.

 

[ModusPwnd]

Well you're doing better than most, many students pay that in one year in tuition + room and board, it gets even worse for private universities and out of state students.

Most students don't go to private out of state universities. That is a luxury of the rich and privilege of the successful hard workers with scholarships. And you have to pay for room and board, food and utilities whether you go to school or not. That is not a school cost... Regular, but quality, state schools like University of Washington and University of Arizona cost about 10-13k a year. Community college costs about 5 or 6k a year.

I just looked up some about Egypt. I found one place that claims a $1200 year tuition is above average. The average pay in Egypt seems to be in the hundreds of dollar per year though. So it might not be financially accessible and loans might be harder to get. Also, the tone of the original post indicates that family or cultural expectations might be getting in the way. Hopefully we will get a response back, but the original post might just be a means to vent.

 

[Jheavner724]

I feel we have gotten off topic. It can probably be agreed that while self-teaching holds some value and may be a good plan of action for the OP in the immediate future, to actually become a mathematician (i.e. at a university), a PhD is probably needed, and this starts with an undergraduate degree. So, I recommend the OP self-study, try to start at any sort of local, cheap college, or online university, get an Associate degree there, then try to get a Bachelors elsewhere using scholarships and financial aid, then go into a PhD program.

Unfortunately, I, like many (maybe all) people on this thread, don't know much about Egyptian universities and the like, and an added layer of complexity is added in the form of the OPs particularly difficult situation.

Perhaps a change of location is in order? It seems to me that, with the home situation of the OP, as well as the desire to become a mathematician (which requires a PhD at a decent graduate school), moving somewhere with good, affordable undergraduate education, as well as good graduate education (often times this comes free) would be preferable (such places include Australia, the UK, the US, and elsewhere). But, perhaps I'm ignorant and Egypt too has such a situation, in which case staying would be fine (and probably easier, as I assume Egyptian Arabic is your L1 and English, while you obviously are proficient in, your L2 or even L3/L4,etc. and likely somewhat weaker than your L1).

 

[TheAustrian]

Regular, but quality, state schools like University of Washington and University of Arizona cost about 10-13k a year. Community college costs about 5 or 6k a year.

These costs in themselves go well beyond the budgets of very many people. Not a lot of people can keep 10k around just to throw it at something.

but the original post might just be a means to vent.

IMO from OP's tone, this is the most likely case.

 

[Jheavner724]

These costs in themselves go well beyond the budgets of very many people. Not a lot of people can keep 10k around just to throw it at something.
IMO from OP's tone, this is the most likely case.

Okay, yes, college can be expensive, but usually there are ways to get around it. Most people I know at my CC pay very little, as in $1000 or less a year, and many pay nothing. This can be achieved through either financial aid or academics (i.e. scholarships). I get my tuition and everything else for free due to this, and I should have enough scholarships (and some financial aid as back-up) to do the same at my four year. Then many PhD programs don't require tuition, as do many MS programs, and even professional degree programs (e.g. MD/PhDs).

I feel that, while college can be tough sometimes with regards to financials and whatnot, it is generally exaggerated, unless you are trying to go to some big prestigious school (which is fair considering the connections, the famous people around you, etc. that you get).

Though, considering this is Egypt, CCs may not exist and it may be tougher; I don't know in all honesty.

 

[adam667]

hello good sir, contrary to what some fools have told you, it is possible to be a high level self taught mathematician. The Giants whose shoulders these idiots rest upon were self taught mathematicians, you cannot make new discoveries and theorems without developing a self taught methodology.

Having said that, it IS however impossible to improve and become better and better in the field of mathematics and physics if you isolate yourself or are forced into isolation from the academic community at large. So in the event that you are unable to do a degree for what ever reason, thankfully in this day and age, the internet allows communication over forums such as this forum with like minded people, a free encyclopedia like Wikipedia ( say what ever you want about it for those who distrust its content, it is still a resource for academic study available to the poor and rich alike globally, and its content is subject to public scrutiny at large, which is one of the pillars of the scientific method in general)

So basically yes, you can always self teach mathematics just as i have by choice, as Oliver Heaviside once stated " i do not refuse my supper simply because i am not hungry" so i in fact implore all physicists and mathematicians to work on their sense of "individuality" as this will collectively result in more diversity in the ideas being thought up. But never assume that because you are going along the path of being self taught that the opinions of others should not be consulted, even the greatest of thinkers will struggle at something, no one has a perfect brain. If i never needed help with anything, well, that is contradicted immediately by my registration on this forum now isn't it? ;-)

Good Luck old chap, fall in love with the scientific process, enjoy the moment you put pen to paper, and abandon any grandiose desires for notoriety as a genius of any sort, none of us will ever compare to beauty and genius of the universe we are surrounded by.

 

[Jheavner724]

hello good sir, contrary to what some fools have told you, it is possible to be a high level self taught mathematician. The Giants whose shoulders these idiots rest upon were self taught mathematicians, you cannot make new discoveries and theorems without developing a self taught methodology.
Having said that, it IS however impossible to improve and become better and better in the field of mathematics and physics if you isolate yourself or are forced into isolation from the academic community at large. So in the event that you are unable to do a degree for what ever reason, thankfully in this day and age, the internet allows communication over forums such as this forum with like minded people, a free encyclopedia like Wikipedia ( say what ever you want about it for those who distrust its content, it is still a resource for academic study available to the poor and rich alike globally, and its content is subject to public scrutiny at large, which is one of the pillars of the scientific method in general)
So basically yes, you can always self teach mathematics just as i have by choice, as Oliver Heaviside once stated " i do not refuse my supper simply because i am not hungry" so i in fact implore all physicists and mathematicians to work on their sense of "individuality" as this will collectively result in more diversity in the ideas being thought up. But never assume that because you are going along the path of being self taught that the opinions of others should not be consulted, even the greatest of thinkers will struggle at something, no one has a perfect brain. If i never needed help with anything, well, that is contradicted immediately by my registration on this forum now isn't it? ;-)
Good Luck old chap, fall in love with the scientific process, enjoy the moment you put pen to paper, and abandon any grandiose desires for notoriety as a genius of any sort, none of us will ever compare to beauty and genius of the universe we are surrounded by.

Good response overall (my only point of disagreement is that you cannot better yourself with regards to mathematics in isolation, though I'd agree collaboration likely increases your chances of improvement and the degree to which you improve), but the calling others idiots and whatnot seems as rude as it is unnecessary and useless.