Neumann's problem, electrostatics, proof

In summary, the conversation discusses the Neumann's problem, which involves finding the potential (Phi) in a given region (Omega) with a given charge distribution (rho) and boundary condition (g). The solution to this problem is given by the equation ##\int _ \Omega \rho dV=-\int _{\partial \Omega } g dS##, which shows that the total charge enclosed in Omega is equal to the integral of the boundary condition g. The conversation also discusses the role of the normal vector in determining the sign of the integral, and concludes that the solution exists and is unique when g satisfies the given condition.
  • #1
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Homework Statement


In the Neumann's problem ##\begin{cases} \triangle \Phi =-4\pi \rho \\ \frac{\partial \Phi }{\partial n}=g \end{cases}##, what condition must g satisfy?

Homework Equations


I'm given the answer, it's ##\int _ \Omega \rho dV=-\int _{\partial \Omega } g dS##.

The Attempt at a Solution


I'm trying to demonstrate that the given answer is indeed true.
So let Omega be the region of interest (in ##\mathbb{R} ^3##, mathematically) and ##\partial \Omega## be its contour.
Now ##\int _\Omega \rho dV=Q##, the total charge enclosed in Omega. So I'm left to show that ##\int _{\partial \Omega } g dS## is worth minus the total charge enclosed in Omega. To me it just looks like the Gauss theorem. If ##g=\frac{\partial \Phi }{\partial n }=|\vec E _{\text{normal to the surface}}|##, then I must show that ##\int _{\partial \Omega } g dS=-Q##.
So I replace g by its value, it gives me ##\int _{\partial \Omega } |\vec E _{\text{normal}}| dS=-Q##.
If I use Gauss theorem, I get that ##\int _\Omega \rho dV= \int _{\partial \Omega } \vec E \cdot \hat n dS##. (where I used one of Maxwell's equation, ##\nabla \cdot \vec E= \rho##, I omitted a constant)
So in order to get what I should, ##|\vec E _{\text{normal }}|## must equal ##\vec E \cdot \hat n##. If the normal points inward Omega then I get what I should. However if the normal points outward Omega (as it generally does), then I get that ##\int _{\partial \Omega } gdS=Q## which has a wrong sign.

Do you see any mistake/error(s) in what I've done?
 
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  • #2
I believe your missing negative sign comes from neglecting the negative sign in ##\vec{E} = -\vec{\nabla}\Phi##. Thus, ##\partial{\Phi}/\partial{n} = -E_n##.
 
  • #3
I see, thank you very much TSny!
 
  • #4
I realize that the problem was either "what does g must satisfy for the solution to exist?" or "what does g must satisfy for the solution to be unique?".
And the answer given is ##\int _ \Omega \rho dV=-\int _{\partial \Omega } g dS## that I showed to be true, but I don't see why this imply that it guaranties that Phi (the potential) either exist (and satisfies Neumann's problem) or is unique (and satisfies Neumann's problem).
Edit: I'm guessing it has to do with if g does not satisfy the relation given as answer, then Phi does not satisfies Poisson's equation.
In this case the original question was probably "what does g must satisfy for the solution to exist?", though I'm not 100% sure.
 
  • #5

Your approach is correct, but there is a small mistake in your use of Gauss's theorem. The correct expression is:

$$\int_\Omega \rho dV = \int_{\partial \Omega} \vec{E} \cdot \hat{n} dS$$

Note that the normal vector is pointing outward from the region of interest, so the dot product should be negative. Therefore, the correct expression for Neumann's problem is:

$$\int_{\partial \Omega} g dS = -\int_\Omega \rho dV$$

This matches the given answer and shows that g must satisfy the condition:

$$\int_{\partial \Omega} g dS = -\int_\Omega \rho dV$$

which is equivalent to:

$$\int_{\partial \Omega} g dS + \int_\Omega \rho dV = 0$$

This condition ensures that the total charge enclosed in the region of interest is equal to the total flux of the electric field through its surface.
 

FAQ: Neumann's problem, electrostatics, proof

What is Neumann's problem in electrostatics?

Neumann's problem is a boundary value problem in electrostatics that involves determining the electric potential or field at a point on the boundary of a given region based on the boundary conditions and charge distribution within the region.

Who was Neumann and why is this problem named after him?

Carl Neumann was a German mathematician who studied various areas of mathematics, including mathematical physics. He developed the mathematical framework for solving boundary value problems in electrostatics, which is now known as Neumann's problem.

What are the boundary conditions in Neumann's problem?

The boundary conditions in Neumann's problem specify the relationship between the electric potential or field at a point on the boundary and the charge distribution within the region. These boundary conditions are necessary to uniquely determine the solution to the problem.

What is the significance of solving Neumann's problem?

Solving Neumann's problem is important in many applications of electrostatics, such as designing electrical devices and understanding the behavior of electric fields in various systems. It also provides a fundamental understanding of the relationship between charge distribution and electric potential or field.

How is Neumann's problem proven in electrostatics?

The proof of Neumann's problem involves using various mathematical techniques, such as Green's function and the method of images, to solve the boundary value problem and show that the solution satisfies the given boundary conditions. It also involves verifying that the solution is unique and physically meaningful.

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