Noetherian Modules - Cohn Theorem 2.2

In summary: N is finitely-generated? Otherwise, we have no contradiction …In summary, the conversation discusses the proof of Theorem 2.2 on Noetherian modules in Chapter 2 of "Introduction to Ring Theory" by P. M. Cohn. The argument involves considering the collection of finitely generated submodules and choosing a maximal term within it. The proof relies on the assumption that an element can be found that is not in the submodule but can be adjoined to it. By showing the containment cannot be proper, it is proven that the submodule is actually equal to the generated submodule, leading to a contradiction and showing that the original submodule is finitely generated. However, a clarification is needed on
  • #1
Math Amateur
Gold Member
MHB
3,998
48
I am reading "Introduction to Ring Theory" by P. M. Cohn (Springer Undergraduate Mathematics Series)

In Chapter 2: Linear Algebras and Artinian Rings we find Theorem 2.2 on Noetherian modules. I need help with some aspects of the proof.

Theorem 2 reads as follows:View attachment 3158
View attachment 3157
In the proof of \(\displaystyle (c) \Longrightarrow (d)\) we read:

If \(\displaystyle N\) is a submodule of \(\displaystyle M\), let \(\displaystyle \mathscr{C}\) be the collection of all finitely generated submodules and choose a maximal term \(\displaystyle N'\) in \(\displaystyle \mathscr{C}\).

If \(\displaystyle N' \subset N\), we can adjoin an element to \(\displaystyle N'\) to obtain \(\displaystyle N''\) in \(\displaystyle \mathscr{C}\) and properly containing \(\displaystyle N'\), but this contradicts the maximality of \(\displaystyle N'\).

Hence, \(\displaystyle N' = N\) and this shows \(\displaystyle N\) to be finitely generated. … … "
My questions regarding this particular argument are as follows:

1. Why do we need the condition \(\displaystyle N' \subset N\) in order to be justified in adjoining an element to \(\displaystyle N'\) to obtain \(\displaystyle N''\)?

2. Why does/how does contradicting the maximality of N' imply that \(\displaystyle N' = N\)? What about the possibility that \(\displaystyle N \subset N'\)?Hoping someone can help.

Peter
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
To begin with, suppose $N$ is finitely-generated, for any choice of $N$. There's nothing to prove.

So we may as well assume $N$ is NOT finitely-generated, and try to derive a contradiction.

To do this, we need to find some element $a \in N$, but $a \not\in N'$. The assumption we can find such an $a$ is the crux of the argument.

Now if $N' \not\subseteq N$, we could instead consider $L = N+N'$. This still has the element $a$ we need and clearly, $L$ contains $N'$ and $L$ cannot be finitely-generated, or else $N$ as a submodule would surely be.

So without losing any generality (since we could use $L$) we may as well assume $N' \subseteq N$ to start with.

We want to show that this containment cannot be proper (this is where $a$ comes in).

So suppose $N' = \langle S\rangle$ for some finite subset $S$ of $M$ (we can do this, since $N' \in \mathscr{C}$, and is thus finitely-generated).

We set $N'' = \langle S,a\rangle$ (this is generated by the finite set $S \cup\{a\}$, clearly STILL finite).

Now $N' \subseteq N''$, and since $N'$ is maximal (in $\mathscr{C}$), it follows that $N' = N''$.

But this is absurd, by our choice of $a$, we have $a \in N'$, but $a \not\in N$, if the two modules are the same, they have the same elements.

So, we must not be able to find ANY such $a$, which means that $N \subseteq N'$ and thus $N = N'$.

This sort of argument is typical of maximality arguments.
 
Last edited:
  • #3
Deveno said:
To begin with, suppose $N$ is finitely-generated, for any choice of $N$. There's nothing to prove.

So we may as well assume $N$ is NOT finitely-generated, and try to derive a contradiction.

To do this, we need to find some element $a \in N$, but $a \not\in N'$. The assumption we can find such an $a$ is the crux of the argument.

Now if $N' \not\subseteq N$, we could instead consider $L = N+N'$. This still has the element $a$ we need and clearly, $L$ contains $N'$ and $L$ cannot be finitely-generated, or else $N$ as a submodule would surely be.

So without losing any generality (since we could use $L$) we may as well assume $N' \subseteq N$ to start with.

We want to show that this containment cannot be proper (this is where $a$ comes in).

So suppose $N' = \langle S\rangle$ for some finite subset $S$ of $M$ (we can do this, since $N' \in \mathscr{C}$, and is thus finitely-generated).

We set $N'' = \langle S,a\rangle$ (this is generated by the finite set $S \cup\{a\}$, clearly STILL finite).

Now $N' \subset N''$, and since $N'$ is maximal (in $\mathscr{C}$), it follows that $N' = N''$.

But this is absurd, by our choice of $a$, we have $a \in N'$, but $a \not\in N$, if the two modules are the same, they have the same elements.

So, we must not be able to find ANY such $a$, which means that $N \subseteq N'$ and thus $N = N'$.

This sort of argument is typical of maximality arguments.
Thanks so much for the help, Deveno ... Much appreciated!

Just working through the details of the post now ...

Peter
 
  • #4
Deveno said:
To begin with, suppose $N$ is finitely-generated, for any choice of $N$. There's nothing to prove.

So we may as well assume $N$ is NOT finitely-generated, and try to derive a contradiction.

To do this, we need to find some element $a \in N$, but $a \not\in N'$. The assumption we can find such an $a$ is the crux of the argument.

Now if $N' \not\subseteq N$, we could instead consider $L = N+N'$. This still has the element $a$ we need and clearly, $L$ contains $N'$ and $L$ cannot be finitely-generated, or else $N$ as a submodule would surely be.

So without losing any generality (since we could use $L$) we may as well assume $N' \subseteq N$ to start with.

We want to show that this containment cannot be proper (this is where $a$ comes in).

So suppose $N' = \langle S\rangle$ for some finite subset $S$ of $M$ (we can do this, since $N' \in \mathscr{C}$, and is thus finitely-generated).

We set $N'' = \langle S,a\rangle$ (this is generated by the finite set $S \cup\{a\}$, clearly STILL finite).

Now $N' \subseteq N''$, and since $N'$ is maximal (in $\mathscr{C}$), it follows that $N' = N''$.

But this is absurd, by our choice of $a$, we have $a \in N'$, but $a \not\in N$, if the two modules are the same, they have the same elements.

So, we must not be able to find ANY such $a$, which means that $N \subseteq N'$ and thus $N = N'$.

This sort of argument is typical of maximality arguments.
Thanks Deveno … I have to say that your argument is so much clearer than Cohn's text … …

However, I still need a further clarification (having followed most of your argument) … …You write:

" … … Now $N' \subseteq N''$, and since $N'$ is maximal (in $\mathscr{C}$), it follows that $N' = N''$. … … "

But surely we actually need \(\displaystyle N' = N\) not \(\displaystyle N' = N''\) in order to conclude:

" … … But this is absurd, by our choice of $a$, we have $a \in N'$, but $a \not\in N$, if the two modules are the same, they have the same elements. … … "

Can you please clarify?

Peter

***EDIT*** I have been reflecting further on your post and I think (but not sure …) I see your argument … ...

We have assumed that \(\displaystyle a \in N\) but \(\displaystyle a \notin N'\) and we have assumed that \(\displaystyle N' \subseteq N\) (actually I think the assumption possibly should be \(\displaystyle N' \subset N\)?) … …… …

then we show - through constructing \(\displaystyle N' = \langle S, a \rangle\) that \(\displaystyle N' = N'' \)which means that \(\displaystyle a \in N'\) which contradicts our assumption that \(\displaystyle a \notin N\)' … …

So … … it seems that we cannot find any a such that \(\displaystyle a \in N\) and \(\displaystyle a \notin N'\) so \(\displaystyle N' \subseteq N\) is in fact \(\displaystyle N' = N\) … …

… … and hence N is finitely generated … …

Can you confirm that my reasoning is correct?

… … …

I note that you mention that this sort of argument is typical of maximality arguments … so then your post has been helpful beyond the details of this particular theorem …I found your argument so much clearer than Cohn's … … so as I have said many times before … if you ever decide to write a text … or a book of examples … then please let me know …Peter
 
Last edited:
  • #5
Peter said:
Thanks Deveno … I have to say that your argument is so much clearer than Cohn's text … …

However, I still need a further clarification (having followed most of your argument) … …You write:

" … … Now $N' \subseteq N''$, and since $N'$ is maximal (in $\mathscr{C}$), it follows that $N' = N''$. … … "

But surely we actually need \(\displaystyle N' = N\) not \(\displaystyle N' = N''\) in order to conclude:

" … … But this is absurd, by our choice of $a$, we have $a \in N'$, but $a \not\in N$, if the two modules are the same, they have the same elements. … … "

Can you please clarify?

Peter

***EDIT*** I have been reflecting further on your post and I think (but not sure …) I see your argument … ...

We have assumed that \(\displaystyle a \in N\) but \(\displaystyle a \notin N'\) and we have assumed that \(\displaystyle N' \subseteq N\) (actually I think the assumption possibly should be \(\displaystyle N' \subset N\)?) … …… …

then we show - through constructing \(\displaystyle N' = \langle S, a \rangle\) that \(\displaystyle N' = N'' \)which means that \(\displaystyle a \in N'\) which contradicts our assumption that \(\displaystyle a \notin N\)' … …

So … … it seems that we cannot find any a such that \(\displaystyle a \in N\) and \(\displaystyle a \notin N'\) so \(\displaystyle N' \subseteq N\) is in fact \(\displaystyle N' = N\) … …

… … and hence N is finitely generated … …

Can you confirm that my reasoning is correct?

… … …

I note that you mention that this sort of argument is typical of maximality arguments … so then your post has been helpful beyond the details of this particular theorem …I found your argument so much clearer than Cohn's … … so as I have said many times before … if you ever decide to write a text … or a book of examples … then please let me know …Peter
You have it right.

Note $N'$ is some specific submodule (which could be hard to exhibit explicitly, depending on the construction of $M$), and $N$ is an arbitrary submodule.

There are a number of possibililities for the relationship of $N'$ and $N$:

1. $N$ lies in $N'$. In this case, $N$ is clearly finitely-generated, since $N'$ is. Suppose $S$ generates $N'$. Can you find (a) set that generates $N$ (generating sets are not typically unique: for example $[1]_4$ and $[3]_4$ both generate $\Bbb Z_4$).

2. $N'$ lies in $N$. This is the case we want to show does not happen.

3. $N' = N$. See (1) above.

4. None of the above. In this case, we use $L = N + N'$ to reduce this to case 2.

Interesting side-note: for some modules, proof of the EXISTENCE of $N'$ from $\mathscr{C}$ relies on Zorn's lemma-that any partially ordered set in which any linear chain (ordered by inclusion, in this case) that is bounded above has a maximal element. $M$ itself might be infinite, and conceivably have infinitely many submodules. For a nice discussion of this see here:

commutative algebra - Is every Noetherian module finitely generated? - Mathematics Stack Exchange

in particular, Arturo Magidin's answer, which indicates which of the steps requires Zorn's lemma/axiom of choice, and which strength. Recognition of the importance of the ascending chain condition for rings/modules was first grasped by the great mathematician Emma Noether, in whose honor such structures are named. One of her students was B.L. van der Waerden, whose seminal text on Algebra is justifiably considered a classic.

A word about how/why this ACC comes to be considered:

Suppose we have an integer, $k$. We can factor this integer into primes. For every factor we "divide out", we get a larger ideal that contains $(k)$. For example:

$(532) \subseteq (266) \subseteq (133) \subseteq (19)$

Note how we are substituting "divisibility" with "ideal inclusion". So when we talk about "maximal ideals", what we are really trying to find is "minimal elements" of some sort. We're looking for "basic building blocks" that we can consider, instead of having to look at the ENTIRE ring/module. It's much easier to deal with a set of generators, than an entire ring/module. If the set of generators is FINITE, it's "the best possible situation". Ideally, it would be nicer if the finite set was even simpler: a single element. So quite a bit of work goes into finding minimal generating sets, and a lot of work goes into finding (when such generating sets are not singletons) decompositions into "aggregates" (in the best-case scenario, a direct sum/product) of ideals/submodules that are generated by a single element. This let's us "filter out" a lot of complexity, and study our structures "one piece at a time".

While the integers are a fairly simple ring, with many special properties, many of the "more advanced rings" are classified by HOW MANY of these "nice properties" we keep. We're pretty good at "counting things", so it's nice to have "something reasonable to count".
 

Related to Noetherian Modules - Cohn Theorem 2.2

1. What is the significance of Noetherian modules in abstract algebra?

Noetherian modules are important in abstract algebra because they allow for the study of modules in a more general and efficient way. They have many useful properties, such as finite generation and the ascending chain condition, which make them easier to work with and apply to various algebraic structures.

2. What is the Cohn Theorem 2.2 and how is it related to Noetherian modules?

Cohn Theorem 2.2 is a result that states that if a module is Noetherian, then its submodules and factor modules are also Noetherian. This theorem is important because it allows for the extension of the properties of Noetherian modules to their submodules and factor modules, providing a more complete understanding of these modules.

3. What is the ascending chain condition for Noetherian modules?

The ascending chain condition for Noetherian modules states that for any sequence of submodules M1 ⊆ M2 ⊆ M3 ⊆ ..., there exists a finite index n such that Mn = Mn+1 = ... This means that the sequence eventually stabilizes and there are no infinite ascending chains of submodules. This is a key property of Noetherian modules, as it allows for the finite generation of modules and simplifies their study.

4. Can non-Noetherian modules satisfy the ascending chain condition?

Yes, it is possible for non-Noetherian modules to satisfy the ascending chain condition. However, this does not make them Noetherian, as they may not have other important properties such as finite generation. The ascending chain condition is necessary but not sufficient for a module to be Noetherian.

5. How are Noetherian modules related to Noetherian rings?

Noetherian modules are closely related to Noetherian rings, as Noetherian rings are those that are Noetherian as modules over themselves. This means that the properties and theorems that hold for Noetherian modules also hold for Noetherian rings, making them an important concept in ring theory and commutative algebra.

Similar threads

  • Linear and Abstract Algebra
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Linear and Abstract Algebra
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Linear and Abstract Algebra
Replies
13
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • Linear and Abstract Algebra
Replies
15
Views
3K
Replies
37
Views
4K
  • Linear and Abstract Algebra
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Back
Top