Number of Orbits: Showing Equality of Group G and G_a

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In summary, the conversation discusses the action of a finite group $G$ on a set $\Omega$, and specifically how the action of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is related to the action of the subgroup $G_a$ on $\Omega$. The concepts of orbits, transitivity, and the Orbit-stabilizer theorem and Burnside's lemma are brought up to help understand the relationship between the two actions. The conversation also includes an example using the symmetric group $S_3$ and the set $\Omega=\{1,2,3\}$ to illustrate these concepts.
  • #1
mathmari
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Hey! :eek:

Let the finite group $G$ act transitively on the set $\Omega$. Then the action of $G$ and on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is defined as follows $(a,b)\cdot x=(a\cdot x, b\cdot x)$.
Let $a\in \Omega$.
Show that the number of orbits of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is equal to the number of orbits of $G_a$ on $\Omega$. From the fact that the finite group $G$ acts transitively on the set $\Omega$, we have that there is just one orbit on $\Omega$, i.e. $\forall \omega_1, \omega_2\in \Omega, \exists g\in G$ such that $g*\omega_1=\omega_2$, right? (Wondering) Could you give me some hints how we could show the equality of the two number of orbits? (Wondering)
 
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  • #2
Hey mathmari! (Smile)

mathmari said:
From the fact that the finite group $G$ acts transitively on the set $\Omega$, we have that there is just one orbit on $\Omega$, i.e. $\forall \omega_1, \omega_2\in \Omega, \exists g\in G$ such that $g*\omega_1=\omega_2$, right? (Wondering)

Could you give me some hints how we could show the equality of the two number of orbits? (Wondering)

Right. (Nod)

Have you tried to apply the Orbit-stabilizer theorem and Burnside's lemma? (Wondering)
To be honest, I'm not quite getting the requested result yet, but it's a good exercise.
 
  • #3
We have that $G_a=\{g\in G\mid g\cdot a=a\}, a\in \Omega$.
Since $G$ acts transitively on the set $\Omega$, we have that there is just one orbit on $\Omega$, i.e. $\forall \omega_1, \omega_2\in \Omega, \exists g\in G$ such that $g \cdot \omega_1=\omega_2$.
For $\omega_1=\omega_2=a$, we have that $g\cdot a=a$, right? (Wondering)

We have that $\Omega^g=\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g\omega=\omega\}$.

Does it stand that $|\Omega^g|=|\Omega|$, because of the above, i.e., because $G$ acts transitively on the set $\Omega$ ? (Wondering)

From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G_a$ on $\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G_a|}\sum_{g\in G_a}|\Omega^g|$$ right? (Wondering) From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G}|(\Omega\times\Omega)^g|$$ right? (Wondering)
 
  • #4
mathmari said:
We have that $G_a=\{g\in G\mid g\cdot a=a\}, a\in \Omega$.
Since $G$ acts transitively on the set $\Omega$, we have that there is just one orbit on $\Omega$, i.e. $\forall \omega_1, \omega_2\in \Omega, \exists g\in G$ such that $g \cdot \omega_1=\omega_2$.

Let's take this step by step. (Thinking)
Yes, we have indeed only one orbit on $\Omega$.

Proof
Let $a \in \Omega$ and suppose there is more than one orbit.
Then there is an element $b\in\Omega$ that is not in the orbit $Ga$.
Then for every $g \in G$ we have that $ga \ne b$, which is a contradiction with the transitivity property.
So indeed, there is only one orbit on $\Omega$. (Nerd)

For $\omega_1=\omega_2=a$, we have that $g\cdot a=a$, right? (Wondering)

We have that $\Omega^g=\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g\omega=\omega\}$.

Does it stand that $|\Omega^g|=|\Omega|$, because of the above, i.e., because $G$ acts transitively on the set $\Omega$ ? (Wondering)

For $\omega_1=\omega_2=a$, we have that there is a $g\in G$ such that $g\cdot a=a$.
This is the case for $g=e$, but I don't think it holds in general for all $g$. (Worried)
From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G_a$ on $\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G_a|}\sum_{g\in G_a}|\Omega^g|$$ right?

From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G}|(\Omega\times\Omega)^g|$$ right?

Yep. (Nod)

Additionally, the orbit-stabilizer theorem tells us that:
$$|Ga| \cdot |G_a|=|G|$$
 
  • #5
I like Serena said:
For $\omega_1=\omega_2=a$, we have that there is a $g\in G$ such that $g\cdot a=a$.
This is the case for $g=e$, but I don't think it holds in general for all $g$. (Worried)

So, is the definition of $\Omega^g$ that I wrote in post #3 wrong? (Wondering)
 
  • #6
mathmari said:
We have that $\Omega^g=\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g\omega=\omega\}$.

Does it stand that $|\Omega^g|=|\Omega|$, because of the above, i.e., because $G$ acts transitively on the set $\Omega$ ? (Wondering)

mathmari said:
So, is the definition of $\Omega^g$ that I wrote in post #3 wrong? (Wondering)

Your definition is correct. (Nod)

Let's pick an example.
Suppose we pick $G=S_3=\{(1), (12), ..., (132)\}$ and $\Omega = \{1,2,3\}$.
Does $G$ act transitively on $\Omega$?

Then we have indeed that $\Omega^{(1)} = \Omega$.
What will $\Omega^{(12)}$ be? (Wondering)
 
  • #7
I like Serena said:
Your definition is correct. (Nod)

Let's pick an example.
Suppose we pick $G=S_3=\{(1), (12), ..., (132)\}$ and $\Omega = \{1,2,3\}$.
Does $G$ act transitively on $\Omega$?

Then we have indeed that $\Omega^{(1)} = \Omega$.
What will $\Omega^{(12)}$ be? (Wondering)

We have that $$(12)(1)=(12) \\ (12)(2)=(12) \\ (12)(3)=(12)$$ or not? (Wondering)
 
  • #8
mathmari said:
We have that $$(12)(1)=(12) \\ (12)(2)=(12) \\ (12)(3)=(12)$$ or not? (Wondering)

Not quite. (Shake)

That's because $(1) \notin \Omega$, just like $(12) \notin \Omega$.
Note that elements of $G$ are permutations, while elements of $\Omega$ are merely numbers.
The permutation acts on a number and results in a number.

So:
$$(12)1=2 \\ (12)2=1 \\ (12)3=3$$
(Thinking)

While we're at it, can you also tell what $G1$ and $G_1$ are? (Wondering)
 
  • #9
I like Serena said:
Note that elements of $G$ are permutations, while elements of $\Omega$ are merely numbers.
The permutation acts on a number and results in a number.

So:
$$(12)1=2 \\ (12)2=1 \\ (12)3=3$$
(Thinking)

How do we get these numbers? (Wondering)
 
  • #10
mathmari said:
How do we get these numbers? (Wondering)

$(12)$ represents the function that maps $1$ to $2$, and that maps $2$ to $1$.
Additionally, it maps $3$ to itself.
If we apply that function to the number $1$, the result is $2$. (Thinking)
 
  • #11
So, we have the function $\sigma$ with $\sigma (1)=2$ and $\sigma(2)=1$, right? (Wondering)

And by $(12)1$ do we mean $\sigma (1)$ ? (Wondering)
 
  • #12
mathmari said:
So, we have the function $\sigma$ with $\sigma (1)=2$ and $\sigma(2)=1$, right?

And by $(12)1$ do we mean $\sigma (1)$ ? (Wondering)

Yep. That's what we mean when we say that $\sigma$ acts on $1$. (Nod)
 
  • #13
I like Serena said:
Yep. That's what we mean when we say that $\sigma$ acts on $1$. (Nod)

Ah ok... (Nerd)
I like Serena said:
Let's pick an example.
Suppose we pick $G=S_3=\{(1), (12), ..., (132)\}$ and $\Omega = \{1,2,3\}$.
Does $G$ act transitively on $\Omega$?

Then we have indeed that $\Omega^{(1)} = \Omega$.
What will $\Omega^{(12)}$ be? (Wondering)

So, $\Omega^{(12)}=\Omega$, right? (Wondering)
I like Serena said:
can you also tell what $G1$ and $G_1$ are? (Wondering)

We have that $G1=\{x\in \Omega : x=g\cdot 1 \text{ for some } g\in G\}=\{g\cdot 1: g\in G\}$ and $G_1=\{g\in G: g\cdot 1=1\}$, right? (Wondering)
 
  • #14
mathmari said:
So, $\Omega^{(12)}=\Omega$, right? (Wondering)

Let's see...

We are looking for those elements $\omega \in \Omega$ such that $(12)\omega = \omega$.
Is this true for $\omega=1$? (Wondering)



We have that $G1=\{x\in \Omega : x=g\cdot 1 \text{ for some } g\in G\}=\{g\cdot 1: g\in G\}$ and $G_1=\{g\in G: g\cdot 1=1\}$, right? (Wondering)

Yep... (Sweating)
 
  • #15
I like Serena said:
We are looking for those elements $\omega \in \Omega$ such that $(12)\omega = \omega$.
Is this true for $\omega=1$? (Wondering)

Ahh... So, we have that $\Omega^{(12)}=\{3\}$, right? (Wondering)
 
  • #16
mathmari said:
Ahh... So, we have that $\Omega^{(12)}=\{3\}$, right? (Wondering)

Right! (Nod)
 
  • #17
I like Serena said:
Additionally, the orbit-stabilizer theorem tells us that:
$$|Ga| \cdot |G_a|=|G|$$

So, $|G_a|=\frac{|G|}{|Ga|}$.

From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G_a$ on $\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G_a|}\sum_{g\in G_a}X(g)=\frac{|Ga|}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G_a}X(g)$$

where $X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g*\omega=\omega\}|$ and $|Ga|=|\{g\cdot a: g\in G\}|$. From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G}\tilde{X}(g)$$ where $\tilde{X}(g)=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid (a,b)\cdot g=(a,b)\}|=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid (a\cdot g, b\cdot g)=(a,b)\}|=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid a\cdot g=a \text{ and } b\cdot g=b\}|$
Is this equal to $|\{a\in \Omega \mid a\cdot g=a\}|\cdot |\{b \in \Omega \mid b\cdot g=b\}|$ or $|\{a\in \Omega \mid a\cdot g=a\}|+ |\{b \in \Omega \mid b\cdot g=b\}|$ ? (Wondering)

Is the formula $\tilde{X}(g)=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid (a,b)\cdot g=(a,b)\}|$ correct? (Wondering)
Or should it be $\tilde{X}(g)=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid g\cdot (a,b)=(a,b)\}|$ ? Or are these formulas the same? (Wondering)
 
  • #18
mathmari said:
So, $|G_a|=\frac{|G|}{|Ga|}$.
Yep. And we already know from the transitive property that $Ga=\Omega$.

From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G_a$ on $\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G_a|}\sum_{g\in G_a}X(g)=\frac{|Ga|}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G_a}X(g)$$

where $X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g*\omega=\omega\}|$ and $|Ga|=|\{g\cdot a: g\in G\}|$.

What does $*$ mean?
Is it conjugation? (Wondering)

From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G}\tilde{X}(g)$$ where $\tilde{X}(g)=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid (a,b)\cdot g=(a,b)\}|=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid (a\cdot g, b\cdot g)=(a,b)\}|=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid a\cdot g=a \text{ and } b\cdot g=b\}|$
Is this equal to $|\{a\in \Omega \mid a\cdot g=a\}|\cdot |\{b \in \Omega \mid b\cdot g=b\}|$ or $|\{a\in \Omega \mid a\cdot g=a\}|+ |\{b \in \Omega \mid b\cdot g=b\}|$ ? (Wondering)

It's the first.
Every combination $(a,b)$ that satisfied $ag=a$ and $bg=b$ counts. (Thinking)

Is the formula $\tilde{X}(g)=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid (a,b)\cdot g=(a,b)\}|$ correct? (Wondering)
Or should it be $\tilde{X}(g)=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid g\cdot (a,b)=(a,b)\}|$ ? Or are these formulas the same? (Wondering)

There's a difference between left actions and right actions.
If nothing is specified, we assume that it's a left action, which is more intuitive.
However, the problem statement suggests we're talking about a right action, although it's not explicitly stated.
That means we should always multiply on the right with $g$ to be consistent. (Nerd)
 
  • #19
I like Serena said:
And we already know from the transitive property that $Ga=\Omega$.

Why do we have from the transitive property that $Ga=\Omega$ ? (Wondering)
I like Serena said:
What does $*$ mean?
Is it conjugation? (Wondering)
It is an action. In my notes there is the following:

$G\rightarrow G$ conjugation
$g*a=a^{g^{-1}}=g^{-1}ag$
I like Serena said:
It's the first.
Every combination $(a,b)$ that satisfied $ag=a$ and $bg=b$ counts. (Thinking)

Could you explain to me further why it is the first one? (Wondering)
I like Serena said:
There's a difference between left actions and right actions.
If nothing is specified, we assume that it's a left action, which is more intuitive.
However, the problem statement suggests we're talking about a right action, although it's not explicitly stated.
That means we should always multiply on the right with $g$ to be consistent. (Nerd)

In my notes there is the following formula: $$G \overset{\text{ action }}{\longrightarrow } \Omega \\ X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g*\omega =\omega\}|$$

So, can we not apply the right action of the problem statement? (Wondering)
 
  • #20
mathmari said:
Why do we have from the transitive property that $Ga=\Omega$ ? (Wondering)

$Ga$ is the orbit of $a$ and you said that from the transitive property it follows that there is only one orbit.
If there is only one orbit all elements of $\Omega$ (commonly referred to as points) must be in that orbit. (Nerd)
It is an action. In my notes there is the following:

$G\rightarrow G$ conjugation
$g*a=a^{g^{-1}}=g^{-1}ag$

Huh? :confused:

A (left) action of $g$ on $x$ is usually written as $g\cdot a$, which means that we apply the permutation $g$ to $a$.
It is actually a function application, so we might also write it as $g(a)$.
Often, it is abbreviated to just $ga$.

The $*$ you mention is a conjugation, which is a possible type of action, but it's not a generic action.
So I don't think we should use it in this particular problem to avoid confusion, unless it's for an example.

Could you explain to me further why it is the first one? (Wondering)

Let's get back to the example we came up with.
That is, $G=S_3$ and $\Omega=\{1,2,3\}$.
Suppose we pick $g=(1)$, then $\Omega^{(1)}=\Omega=\{1,2,3\}$.
Which elements of $(a,b)\in\Omega\times\Omega$ have $(a,b) \cdot g= (a,b)$?
How many are there? Is it $|\Omega|\cdot|\Omega|$ or $|\Omega|+|\Omega|$? (Wondering)


In my notes there is the following formula: $$G \overset{\text{ action }}{\longrightarrow } \Omega \\ X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g*\omega =\omega\}|$$

So, can we not apply the right action of the problem statement? (Wondering)

That's not a right action. :confused:
A right action is if we multiply by $g$ on the right.
If $G$ is a right action, we would have for instance $X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid \omega * g =\omega\}|$.
And then it's still confusing whether $*$ represents a generic action, or if it represents the specific conjugation action. :confused:
 
  • #21
I like Serena said:
$Ga$ is the orbit of $a$ and you said that from the transitive property it follows that there is only one orbit.
If there is only one orbit all elements of $\Omega$ (commonly referred to as points) must be in that orbit. (Nerd)

Ah ok... I see... (Nerd)
I like Serena said:
A (left) action of $g$ on $x$ is usually written as $g\cdot a$, which means that we apply the permutation $g$ to $a$.
It is actually a function application, so we might also write it as $g(a)$.
Often, it is abbreviated to just $ga$.

The $*$ you mention is a conjugation, which is a possible type of action, but it's not a generic action.
So I don't think we should use it in this particular problem to avoid confusion, unless it's for an example.
$X(g)$ of Burnside's formula is the permutation character, it is equal to the number of elements that $g$ leaves unchanged and the formula that I found in my noyes is $X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g*\omega =\omega\}|$.

So, should that formula be $X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g\cdot \omega =\omega\}|$ ? (Wondering)
I like Serena said:
Let's get back to the example we came up with.
That is, $G=S_3$ and $\Omega=\{1,2,3\}$.
Suppose we pick $g=(1)$, then $\Omega^{(1)}=\Omega=\{1,2,3\}$.
Which elements of $(a,b)\in\Omega\times\Omega$ have $(a,b) \cdot g= (a,b)$?
How many are there? Is it $|\Omega|\cdot|\Omega|$ or $|\Omega|+|\Omega|$? (Wondering)

For each $a$ there are three possible values for $b$.
Therefore, it is $|\Omega|\cdot|\Omega|$, right? (Wondering)
 
  • #22
mathmari said:
$X(g)$ of Burnside's formula is the permutation character, it is equal to the number of elements that $g$ leaves unchanged and the formula that I found in my noyes is $X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g*\omega =\omega\}|$.

So, should that formula be $X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g\cdot \omega =\omega\}|$ ? (Wondering)

For each $a$ there are three possible values for $b$.
Therefore, it is $|\Omega|\cdot|\Omega|$, right? (Wondering)

Yes and yes. (Nod)
 
  • #23
I like Serena said:
Yes and yes. (Nod)

So, we have the following: From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G_a$ on $\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G_a|}\sum_{g\in G_a}X(g)=\frac{|Ga|}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G_a}X(g)=\frac{|\Omega|}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G_a}X(g)$$

where $X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g\cdot \omega=\omega\}|$. From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G}\tilde{X}(g)$$ where $\tilde{X}(g)=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid g\cdot (a,b)=(a,b)\}|$.

So, we cannot apply here the operation of the problem statement, can we? (Wondering)
 
  • #24
mathmari said:
So, we have the following: From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G_a$ on $\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G_a|}\sum_{g\in G_a}X(g)=\frac{|Ga|}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G_a}X(g)=\frac{|\Omega|}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G_a}X(g)$$

where $X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid g\cdot \omega=\omega\}|$. From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G}\tilde{X}(g)$$ where $\tilde{X}(g)=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid g\cdot (a,b)=(a,b)\}|$.

Correct.
Additionally, I believe we found that:
$$\tilde X(g) = |(\Omega \times \Omega)^g| = |\Omega^g| \cdot |\Omega^g| = X(g)^2$$

Now we might fill in the example to see how it works out. (Thinking)
 
  • #25
I like Serena said:
Additionally, I believe we found that:
$$\tilde X(g) = |(\Omega \times \Omega)^g| = |\Omega^g| \cdot |\Omega^g| = X(g)^2$$

But when we found that we applied the operation of the problem statement...

mathmari said:
From Burnside's formula we have that the number of orbits of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is equal to $$\frac{1}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G}\tilde{X}(g)$$ where $\tilde{X}(g)=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid (a,b)\cdot g=(a,b)\}|=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid (a\cdot g, b\cdot g)=(a,b)\}|=|\{(a,b) \in \Omega\times\Omega \mid a\cdot g=a \text{ and } b\cdot g=b\}|$
Is this equal to $|\{a\in \Omega \mid a\cdot g=a\}|\cdot |\{b \in \Omega \mid b\cdot g=b\}|$

(Thinking)
 
  • #26
mathmari said:
But when we found that we applied the operation of the problem statement... (Thinking)

We're using how the problem statement defined the operation $\cdot$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$.
It defined that $(a,b)\cdot g = (a\cdot g, b\cdot g)$, so now we can use it.
Btw, implicitly it defined both the action on $\Omega$ and the action on $\Omega\times\Omega$ to be right actions. (Thinking)

If we pick a specific $g$, we can find the set $\Omega^g$.
Each element $a$ in it has $a\cdot g=a$.
As you said, the set $(\Omega \times \Omega)^g$ has exactly those elements $(a,b)$ that has $a\in\Omega^g$ and $b\in\Omega^g$.
Since we can combine each $a\in\Omega^g$ with any of the $b\in\Omega^g$, there are in total $|\Omega^g|\cdot|\Omega^g|$ elements for a specific $g$. (Thinking)
 
  • #27
I like Serena said:
We're using how the problem statement defined the operation $\cdot$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$.
It defined that $(a,b)\cdot g = (a\cdot g, b\cdot g)$, so now we can use it.
Btw, implicitly it defined both the action on $\Omega$ and the action on $\Omega\times\Omega$ to be right actions. (Thinking)

If we pick a specific $g$, we can find the set $\Omega^g$.
Each element $a$ in it has $a\cdot g=a$.
As you said, the set $(\Omega \times \Omega)^g$ has exactly those elements $(a,b)$ that has $a\in\Omega^g$ and $b\in\Omega^g$.
Since we can combine each $a\in\Omega^g$ with any of the $b\in\Omega^g$, there are in total $|\Omega^g|\cdot|\Omega^g|$ elements for a specific $g$. (Thinking)

Ah OK.. Now we have that the number of orbits of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is equal to $\frac{1}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G}X(g)^2$ and the number of orbits of $G_a$ on $\Omega$ is $\frac{|\Omega|}{|G|}\sum_{g\in G_a}X(g)$.

How can we show that these two are equal? (Wondering)
 
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  • #28
We have that $G_a=\{g\in G\mid a\cdot g=a\}$ and $X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid \omega \cdot g=\omega\}|$, right? (Wondering)

For $g\in G_a$ we have that $X(g)$ is equal to $1$ since it contains only the elment $a$, or not? (Wondering)
 
  • #29
mathmari said:
We have that $G_a=\{g\in G\mid a\cdot g=a\}$ and $X(g)=|\{\omega \in \Omega \mid \omega \cdot g=\omega\}|$, right? (Wondering)

For $g\in G_a$ we have that $X(g)$ is equal to $1$ since it contains only the elment $a$, or not? (Wondering)

Suppose we pick $G=S_3$ and $a=1$.
Then $G_a = G_1 = \{ (1), (23) \}$.

For $g=(1) \in G_a$, we get $X(g) = |\Omega^{(1)}| = |\Omega| = |\{1,2,3\}| = 3$. (Thinking)
 
  • #30
I like Serena said:
Suppose we pick $G=S_3$ and $a=1$.
Then $G_a = G_1 = \{ (1), (23) \}$.

For $g=(1) \in G_a$, we get $X(g) = |\Omega^{(1)}| = |\Omega| = |\{1,2,3\}| = 3$. (Thinking)

Ah ok... I see... (Thinking) Could you maybe give me a hint how we could show the equality of the two number of orbits? (Wondering)
I got stuck right now...
 
  • #31
mathmari said:
Could you maybe give me a hint how we could show the equality of the two number of orbits? (Wondering)
I got stuck right now...

I like Serena said:
Have you tried to apply the Orbit-stabilizer theorem and Burnside's lemma? (Wondering)
To be honest, I'm not quite getting the requested result yet, but it's a good exercise.

Best I can do, is to suggest to work out a couple of examples.
Such as $G=S_3$, $G=A_4$, and $G=S_4$.
That will give some insight in what's happening. (Thinking)

Beyond that, I'm stuck right now... (Worried)
 
  • #32
Could we do the following?

Let $(a,b)G=\{(a,b)g: g\in G\}=\{(a\cdot g, b\cdot g):g\in G\}$, $(a,b)\in \Omega\times\Omega$ be an orbit of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$.
We have that $(a,b)\in (a,b)G$ if $a=a\cdot g$ and $b=b\cdot g$, i.e., $g\in G_a=\{g\in G: g\cdot a=a\}$.
Also $(a,c)\in (a,b)G$ if $a=a\cdot g$ and $c=b\cdot g$, i.e., $c\in bG_a$, where $bG_a$ is an orbit of $G_a$ on $\Omega$.
We have that $b\in bG_a$.
That means that $(a,b)$ and $(a,c)$ belong to the same orbit of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ iff $b$ and $c$ belong to the same orbit of $G_a$ on $\Omega$.
Therefore, the number of orbits of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is equal to the number of orbits of $G_a$ on $\Omega$.

Is this correct? (Wondering)

But now it depends on $a$.

What could we do? (Wondering)
 
  • #33
mathmari said:
Could we do the following?

Let $(a,b)G=\{(a,b)g: g\in G\}=\{(a\cdot g, b\cdot g):g\in G\}$, $(a,b)\in \Omega\times\Omega$ be an orbit of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$.
We have that $(a,b)\in (a,b)G$ if $a=a\cdot g$ and $b=b\cdot g$, i.e., $g\in G_a=\{g\in G: g\cdot a=a\}$.
Also $(a,c)\in (a,b)G$ if $a=a\cdot g$ and $c=b\cdot g$, i.e., $c\in bG_a$, where $bG_a$ is an orbit of $G_a$ on $\Omega$.
We have that $b\in bG_a$.
That means that $(a,b)$ and $(a,c)$ belong to the same orbit of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ iff $b$ and $c$ belong to the same orbit of $G_a$ on $\Omega$.
Therefore, the number of orbits of $G$ on $\Omega\times\Omega$ is equal to the number of orbits of $G_a$ on $\Omega$.

Is this correct? (Wondering)

But now it depends on $a$.

What could we do? (Wondering)

Let's pick an example.
Say $G=S_3$, $\Omega=\{1,2,3\}$, and $a=1$.
Then $G_a = G_1 = \{(1), (23)\}$, which are the elements that leave $1$ unchanged.
And $aG = 1G = \Omega=\{1,2,3\}$. (Nerd)Then the sets of orbits are:
$$\Omega\times\Omega/G = \{1,2,3\}\times\{1,2,3\}/S_3 = \Big\{ \{ (1,1), (2,2), (3,3) \}, \quad\{ (1,2), (1,3), (2,1), (2,3), (3,1), (3,2) \} \Big\}$$
and:
$$\Omega/G_1 = \{1,2,3\}/\{(1), (23)\} = \Big\{ \{ 1 \}, \quad\{ 2, 3 \} \Big\}$$
So indeed, in both cases the number of orbits is $2$.
However, I don't see how considering that $(1,2)$ and $(1,3)$ are in the same orbit helps us if we only consider the permutations that leave $1$ unchanged. We don't even take into account that in this case for instance $(2,1)$ is in the same orbit. (Worried)Alternatively, Burnside tells us that:
$$|\Omega\times\Omega/G| = \frac{1}{|S_3|}\sum_{g\in S_3}|(\Omega\times\Omega)^g|
= \frac 16\left(|(\Omega\times\Omega)^{(1)}| + 3 |(\Omega\times\Omega)^{(23)}| + 2 |(\Omega\times\Omega)^{(123)}|\right)
= \frac 16\left(|\Omega\times\Omega| + 3 | \{ (1,1) \} | + 2 \cdot 0\right)
=2$$
And:
$$|\Omega/G_a| = \frac{1}{|G_1|}\sum_{h\in G_1}|\Omega^h| = \frac{1}{|\{(1), (23)\}|}\sum_{h\in \{(1), (23)\}}|\Omega^h|
= \frac 12\left(|\Omega^{(1)}| + |\Omega^{(23)}| \right)
= \frac 12\left(|\Omega| + | \{ 1 \} |\right)
=2$$

It seems we might have a match between the terms in both cases... (Thinking)
 
  • #34
I like Serena said:
Let's pick an example.
Say $G=S_3$, $\Omega=\{1,2,3\}$, and $a=1$.
Then $G_a = G_1 = \{(1), (23)\}$, which are the elements that leave $1$ unchanged.
And $aG = 1G = \Omega=\{1,2,3\}$. (Nerd)Then the sets of orbits are:
$$\Omega\times\Omega/G = \{1,2,3\}\times\{1,2,3\}/S_3 = \Big\{ \{ (1,1), (2,2), (3,3) \}, \quad\{ (1,2), (1,3), (2,1), (2,3), (3,1), (3,2) \} \Big\}$$
and:
$$\Omega/G_1 = \{1,2,3\}/\{(1), (23)\} = \Big\{ \{ 1 \}, \quad\{ 2, 3 \} \Big\}$$
So indeed, in both cases the number of orbits is $2$.
However, I don't see how considering that $(1,2)$ and $(1,3)$ are in the same orbit helps us if we only consider the permutations that leave $1$ unchanged. We don't even take into account that in this case for instance $(2,1)$ is in the same orbit. (Worried)

From the fact that the finite group $G$ acts transitively on the set $\Omega$, we have that there is just one orbit on $\Omega$, i.e. for $a\in \Omega$ and $\forall \omega_1\in \Omega, \exists g\in G$ such that $ga=\omega_1$.
So, $\forall \omega_1, \omega_2\in \Omega$ we have that $(\omega_1, \omega_2)=(ga, \omega_2)=(ga, gg^{-1}\omega_2)=g(a, g^{-1}\omega_2)$.

Is this correct? (Wondering)
 
  • #35
mathmari said:
From the fact that the finite group $G$ acts transitively on the set $\Omega$, we have that there is just one orbit on $\Omega$, i.e. for $a\in \Omega$ and $\forall \omega_1\in \Omega, \exists g\in G$ such that $ga=\omega_1$.
So, $\forall \omega_1, \omega_2\in \Omega$ we have that $(\omega_1, \omega_2)=(ga, \omega_2)=(ga, gg^{-1}\omega_2)=g(a, g^{-1}\omega_2)$.

Is this correct? (Wondering)

Since we have an (unusual) right action, let's make that:

$\forall \omega_1, \omega_2\in \Omega\, \exists g \in G$ such that $(\omega_1, \omega_2)=(ag, \omega_2)=(ag, \omega_2g^{-1}g)=(a, \omega_2g^{-1})g$
 

FAQ: Number of Orbits: Showing Equality of Group G and G_a

What is the significance of the number of orbits in a group?

The number of orbits in a group is an important factor in understanding the structure and properties of the group. It represents the number of distinct ways in which the elements of the group can be rearranged or transformed while still maintaining the same overall structure. This can provide insights into the symmetry and complexity of the group.

How is the number of orbits related to the concept of group action?

The number of orbits is directly related to the concept of group action, as it represents the number of distinct orbits or "paths" that the group can take when acting on a set. This can be visualized as the number of distinct ways in which the elements of the group can be used to transform the set.

Can the number of orbits be used to determine the order of a group?

Yes, the number of orbits can be used to determine the order of a group. The order of a group is defined as the number of elements in the group, and the number of orbits is a factor in determining this number. However, the number of orbits alone is not enough to determine the order of a group, as there are other factors that must also be considered.

How does the number of orbits relate to the concept of equivalence classes?

The number of orbits is closely related to the concept of equivalence classes. Each orbit can be thought of as an equivalence class, where elements within the same orbit are considered equivalent under the group action. The number of orbits can provide information about the number of distinct equivalence classes within a group.

Can the number of orbits be used to determine the isomorphism of two groups?

Yes, the number of orbits can be used to determine the isomorphism of two groups. If two groups have the same number of orbits, it is a strong indication that they are isomorphic, meaning they have the same structure and properties. However, this is not always the case and other factors must also be considered in determining isomorphism.

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