On fundamental level, rest mass = 0?

In summary, rest mass refers to the intrinsic property of an object that determines its resistance to acceleration. According to the theory of relativity, an object with rest mass cannot travel at the speed of light as it would require infinite energy. However, some particles, such as photons, have a rest mass equal to 0, meaning they can travel at the speed of light. This concept challenges traditional notions of mass and highlights the complex nature of the fundamental building blocks of the universe.
  • #1
Dmitry67
2,567
1
Is rest mass just an illusion?

In Proton, for example, most of the rest mass is relativistic mass of quarks, moving at relativistic speeds.

Quarks are quite light, but if we go deeper, the rest mass of quark is also an illusion - all particles have rest mass = 0, and what we call mass is a result of interaction of a partcile with Higgs field.

Does Higgs have rest mass > 0?
 
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  • #2
Dmitry67 said:
Is rest mass just an illusion?

In Proton, for example, most of the rest mass is relativistic mass of quarks, moving at relativistic speeds.

Quarks are quite light, but if we go deeper, the rest mass of quark is also an illusion - all particles have rest mass = 0, and what we call mass is a result of interaction of a partcile with Higgs field.

Does Higgs have rest mass > 0?

This is a nice popular article on the origin of mass from on of the QCD fathers.
http://www.frankwilczek.com/Wilczek_Easy_Pieces/342_Origin_of_Mass.pdf

Where he notes that more than 90% of all mass of matter are due to "confined energy" of the pure energy as in "massless" photon and gluon fields.

The residual mass are attributed to masses of quarks (and electrons).

The higgs particle/mechanism, which we should note isn't yet found, and is IMO still a theoretical idea motivated by expectations from the consistency of SM rather than confirmed fact, is believed to be very heavy, 300000 times the mass of the electron.

/Fredrik
 
  • #3
What gives rest mass to Higgs itself?
Self-coupling?
 
  • #4
Dmitry67 said:
What gives rest mass to Higgs itself?

Good question but I don't think there is supposed to be an answer to that in the SM?

Maybe someone else can provide som meaningful answer to this, but as far as I understand this question is one of the ways in which the higgs mechanism does not explain mass without mass.

I think the idea of mass without mass, as just "confined energy" is interesting, and this somehow connects to the meaning on why there is stable confinement of energy, and also the meaning of "confinement" (I don't mean quark confinement here though) implicitly refers to some kind of index or state space in general, and ordinary 3D space in the more specific meaning here.

I personally think the origin of mass requires some new ideas. I don't think focusing on the higgs itself will solve the deepest sense of this question.

/Fredrik
 
  • #5
I this thread https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=254612 there is an old discussion of Frank's book Lightness of Being, it's a popular level book rather than anything else, but I found hints of some interesting ideas on the "NATURE OF SYMMETRY" reading that book, that is to my liking. I strongly associate this to the recent discussions of nature of physical law (https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=403596) , since to a large excent symmetries are the essence of laws, or a compect representation thereof.

/Fredrik
 
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  • #6
Dmitry67 said:
all particles have rest mass = 0, and what we call mass is a result of interaction of a partcile with Higgs field.

Somehow I don't think "fundamental" is a good word for what is "the mass it would have if the laws of physics were different than they are".

Dmitry67 said:
What gives rest mass to Higgs itself?
Self-coupling?

Yes.
 
  • #7
Vanadium 50 said:
Dmitry67 said:
What gives rest mass to Higgs itself?
Self-coupling?
Yes.

Thanks.

I don't understand this enough to say that I have a coherent picture of this, but if I'm not mistaken several coupling constants as well as the higgs actual mass (not just the idea that it has mass) are still not predictable from the regular SM, and there are rather extensions with a diversity of predictions.

The simple idea of mass from relativistic mass as confined energy just begs two further questions.

What is energy, the reason for "confinement" of energy in space, and what is space. Probably the questions are different views of the same bigger question.

But an issue I see with the higgs ideas it is that it is a somewhat constructed mechanism that appears to be almost like a fifth force? This seems unsatisfactory and slightly ad hoc. So the higgs still begs the questions: what is the higgs field? and what determines it's action, if it does not follow from the known standard actions?

As far as I understood, these question have no answers, or do they? Until they do, isn't the entire "higgs giving mass to others" more like a bookkeeping thing that as an satisfactory explanation?

I would love it someone that has deeper knowledge on these details could jump in.

/Fredrik
 

FAQ: On fundamental level, rest mass = 0?

1. What is the meaning of "rest mass = 0" on a fundamental level?

On a fundamental level, "rest mass = 0" refers to the concept that some particles, such as photons, have no rest mass. This means that they do not have any mass when they are at rest, but they still have energy and momentum.

2. How does the concept of "rest mass = 0" fit into the theory of relativity?

The concept of "rest mass = 0" is an important aspect of the theory of relativity. It is a fundamental principle that describes the relationship between energy, mass, and the speed of light. This principle helps to explain the behavior of particles with zero rest mass, such as photons.

3. Can particles with "rest mass = 0" still interact with other particles?

Yes, particles with "rest mass = 0" can still interact with other particles. While they may not have mass when at rest, they still have energy and momentum, allowing them to interact with and influence other particles through processes such as scattering and absorption.

4. Are there any other particles besides photons with "rest mass = 0"?

Yes, there are other particles besides photons with "rest mass = 0." These include gluons, which are responsible for the strong nuclear force, and the hypothetical particles known as gravitons, which are thought to mediate the force of gravity.

5. How does the concept of "rest mass = 0" impact our understanding of the universe?

The concept of "rest mass = 0" has significant implications for our understanding of the universe. It helps to explain the behavior of particles and their interactions, and it also plays a crucial role in theories such as the Standard Model and the theory of quantum electrodynamics. Additionally, the existence of particles with zero rest mass has far-reaching consequences for the structure and evolution of the universe as a whole.

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