PhD in Engineering, Very Rare in Industry I Work in, Impacts?

[YoshiMoshi]

I work in an industry were a PhD is very rare. Bachelor degree employees are very common. In the 9 years sense I've been working in it, I've only ever come across one person who had a PhD, and they were a director. Thinking of doing a PhD in engineering and continuing to work in industry. Maybe somebody could shed some light on this type of situation.

1) Do you expect your colleagues to call you "doctor"?
2) If you work in a very large company, do you expect others you don't directly work with to call you "doctor"?
3) In documentation that goes to your customers, I presume you put PhD after your name? I don't see why not. Could only be a good thing.
4) Did you put PhD after your name on your resume or did you leave it off your education section of your resume all together? I've read online, that people who applied to Google (completely different industry) people who put PhD at the top of their resume were less likely to get hired because it came across in a bad way. I'm not sure if it is true or not. I've read that PhDs are very common at Google though.

Kind of wondering how this would impact my career, because it would stick out like a sore thumb, for better or worse. Not to mention that I've been in school for 13 years, and I've got at least another 2 if I take two classes a semester, and 3 to 4 if not, to finish my current degree. Getting a PhD after my current program would just add even more years to it. I'd be sitting at well over 20+ years straight when I'm done. Last interview I had only been in school for 8 years, so not to crazy. If I were ever to interview again, not sure what kind of reaction I would get or if it would actually hurt me. Not only would I have a degree at a level not many in my industry have, but I would have also been in school more than five times as long as the majority of other people.

I like really like to learn new things, and may not be able to resist at least attempting to pursue one.

 

[jedishrfu]

I worked in a research lab and it's rare that I heard anyone use their Doctor or Professor title unless it was a graduate student working for them.

 

[Orodruin]

I worked in a research lab and it's rare that I heard anyone use their Doctor or Professor title unless it was a graduate student working for them.

I basically never heard anyone address me as "professor" apart from exchange students from different countries. I also don't expect that address. It is very cultural.

 

[CrysPhys]

OP: Before I respond, please confirm whether you are in the US or not (your profile does not indicate). Answers may depend on country. My experience is limited to US.

 

[YoshiMoshi]

OP: Before I respond, please confirm whether you are in the US or not (your profile does not indicate). Answers may depend on country. My experience is limited to US.

Hi yes. The US.

 

[Vanadium 50]

There are many good reasons to get a PhD, Having people call you "doctor" is not one of them.

 

[Orodruin]

Having people call you "doctor" is not one of them.

Well, it is a reason.

 

[berkeman]

I've only known a few engineering PhDs in my industrial R&D work over the years. It's pretty rare in my experience, and really the only reason I found out they had a PhD is because I saw it listed on their business cards.

1) Do you expect your colleagues to call you "doctor"?

Of course not, that would be silly, IMO.

Kind of wondering how this would impact my career

I think the only reason for you to get a PhD is if you have some specialty that really interests you, and you want to focus on it. If you are not passionate about some particular specialty (where a PhD would make you more valuable to a company), then I think it's a waste of your time.

 

[berkeman]

I work in an industry were a PhD is very rare.

Can you say what industry that is? That would help us to respond to your questions better...

 

[DaveE]

I worked for many years at a big laser manufacturer in Silicon Valley, this was my experience:

- The physicists there (there were many) nearly all had PhDs as far as I know. Although, they would have probably called themselves Optical or Laser Engineers, I would guess. One exception was one of the best, nicest, smartest guys I ever worked with, he "only" had an MS degree. He also had nearly the highest number of patents of all of them.

- I think none of the support staff, like me, EEs, MechEs, SW, MfrEs, etc. had PhDs. Most had BS, several had MS in their field. Most of the marketing group had PhDs. Many of our customers had PhDs.

- No one called anyone "Doctor" or "Professor" (yes there were a couple that taught at Stanford there too). That would have been thought both strange and/or pretentious; maybe used in a joke or teasing. Also, no one really cared. What counted was what you knew, what you could do, whether you were nice, dependable, etc. To the extent that there was a hierarchy there, it was not based on your graduate work, more likely your industrial experience or the problem you solved last year.

- When hiring new graduates, I think their graduate work (thesis, etc.) was looked at as a sample of their work product. Also as a way to target employees with the practical theoretical experience that the company wanted. If your thesis was about non-linear optics you were infinitely more likely to get a job offer than if it was in theoretical physics. If you had a lot of success/experience in the industry, that probably counted more. In both cases references are very important.

- In some cases, I think who you had met or worked with in your graduate work mattered. We sold many lasers into that environment. The ability to understand the customer's needs or to collaborate on current technology was important in that market segment. But this applied equally well to the non-academic markets, like machining, printing, biology, semi manufacturing, etc. This was really about industry relationships, and academic research was one of our business segments.

- If you used the word doctor, that meant MD, like you were sick or had a customer that practiced medicine.

 

[CrysPhys]

I have a PhD in physics. I worked in industry for 20+ yrs and in a law firm for almost 10 yrs. In industry, I worked for a variety of organizations, ranging from those in which a PhD (science or engineering) was de rigeur to be a principal or lead scientist or engineer to those in which a PhD was an outlier. I also worked in a variety of functions, including systems engineer (which, if I recall correctly from one of your other threads, is what you are).

1) Do you expect your colleagues to call you "doctor"?
2) If you work in a very large company, do you expect others you don't directly work with to call you "doctor"?

Unless the local organizational etiquette dictates otherwise, absolutely, "NO!". Of course, our First Lady, Dr. Jill Biden, would strongly disagree. Fortunately, I never worked for an organization in which the local organizational etiquette dictated otherwise [but see comment in answer to (3) below].

3) In documentation that goes to your customers, I presume you put PhD after your name? I don't see why not. Could only be a good thing.

Unless the local organizational etiquette requires otherwise, absolutely, "NO!". In industry, I did end up in a scenario in which R&D was subservient to marketing; the marketing guys called the shots. I also ended up in a scenario in which I directly interacted with current or potential customers. The marketing guys insisted that, on external correspondence to customers, those of us with PhDs put "PhD" after our names. We also had PhD on our business cards. At meetings with customers, the marketing guy would also introduce me as Dr. ____ (but I would then quip up, "Please call me by my first name ___ .") From discussions with friends at other companies, all this appeared to be common practice for PhDs who interacted with external customers.

When I was working in a law firm, my boss had me add PhD to my business card, and also in meetings with some bigwig clients dropped that I had a PhD, but did not directly address me as Dr. ___ . Official correspondence did not include PhD after my signature; standard protocol called for my USPTO (patent office) registration number.

4) Did you put PhD after your name on your resume or did you leave it off your education section of your resume all together? I've read online, that people who applied to Google (completely different industry) people who put PhD at the top of their resume were less likely to get hired because it came across in a bad way. I'm not sure if it is true or not. I've read that PhDs are very common at Google though.

I never put PhD after my name in the top line of my resume (if you are working with a savvy recruiter, though, ask for their guidance with respect to specific companies). But of course I did include it under the "Education" section. I firmly believe that duty of candor and duty of disclosure require you to put down all your formal degrees. This issue typically arises in the context of a candidate seeking a downgrade. E.g., in the midst of an industry meltdown, there are no openings for a lead investigator, but there are for a technician.

Kind of wondering how this would impact my career, because it would stick out like a sore thumb, for better or worse.

If you're seeking a PhD purely to satisfy your personal intellectual development, and wish to spend the time and resources, why not? If the PhD can lead to a niche role as an expert in your organization, go for it.

But if a PhD is an outlier in your field, it could hurt. Managers could view you as too academic, over qualified, not willing to get your hands dirty. I had one wacko supervisor who had it in for me once he found out I had a PhD (I didn't broadcast it; after a reorg, he was brought in as our new supervisor, and he asked each of us to give him a resume so he could learn our backgrounds; besides, he had access to our employment folders). He kept making digs at me, but I wasn't sure why. Then in an off moment, the truth came out: He had washed out of a PhD program and resented PhDs. I transferred out as soon as I could.

 

[gmax137]

maybe used in a joke or teasing

For a while at work, everyone in my group called each other "Doctor." It was a joke, many of us (me included) were NOT PhDs. Not sure how it got started but we all thought it kind of funny, being overly formal.

 

[berkeman]

 

[Vanadium 50]

You beat me to posting that by 1 second!

 

[Orodruin]

Here are some other people shouting ”doctor”:

 

[russ_watters]

For a while at work, everyone in my group called each other "Doctor." It was a joke, many of us (me included) were NOT PhDs. Not sure how it got started but we all thought it kind of funny, being overly formal.

Yeah I had that in high school after Spies Like US came out too. One of my friends still does it every now and then.

 

[FactChecker]

In the daily work environment, it is not usual to include titles. But anything that is more formal, like a presentation to a large group, it would be appropriate. I worked with a person who was noticeably generous in giving credit to others. He would call a person "Dr ...." out of respect. IMO, it made a favorable impression. Keep in mind that his respect was genuine, otherwise it might have seemed phony or even sarcastic.

 

[CrysPhys]

In the daily work environment, it is not usual to include titles. But anything that is more formal, like a presentation to a large group, it would be appropriate. I worked with a person who was noticeably generous in giving credit to others. He would call a person "Dr ...." out of respect. IMO, it made a favorable impression. Keep in mind that his respect was genuine, otherwise it might have seemed phony or even sarcastic.

<<Emphasis added>> Caveat: This would be highly dependent on the local etiquette. Was not appropriate in any of my formal strictly technical settings (where no marketing guys were calling the shots).

Personally I would consider it pretentious. And as a practical matter, I avoid it because of:

- If you used the word doctor, that meant MD, like you were sick or had a customer that practiced medicine.

I don't want people mistakenly running to me when they need medical assistance.ETA: You really need to be cognizant of, and sensitive to, the local environment. E.g., one of my assignments was troubleshooting issues at a manufacturing facility. For me to do my job effectively, it was crucial that I be accepted as one of the guys so I could get the real scoop on what was going on. If I were ever called out as Dr. ___ in a formal meeting, it would probably have alienated me from the guys whose cooperation I needed.

 

[Vanadium 50]

My mother refers to me as "My son the doctor. But not the kind who helps anyone."

 

[gmax137]

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

[FactChecker]

My mother refers to me as "My son the doctor. But not the kind who helps anyone."

This is the quote of the day.

 

[FactChecker]

<<Emphasis added>> Caveat: This would be highly dependent on the local etiquette. Was not appropriate in any of my formal strictly technical settings (where no marketing guys were calling the shots).

Personally I would consider it pretentious.

Just to be clear, I would not use it when referring to myself. I am talking about how others use it when referring to someone else.

 

[CrysPhys]

Just to be clear, I would not use it when referring to myself. I am talking about how others use it when referring to someone else.

I understand that. But I would not be too keen on someone else referring to me as Dr. ___ in a formal meeting by default (others might assume that's what I want and that I'm pretentious). I gave an example in my Reply #18 of a scenario in which it would backfire, even if it were well intentioned as a title of respect. My point again is you shouldn't automatically assume that referring to a PhD as Dr. ___ in a formal setting is necessarily the best thing to do. In the scenario you mentioned in Reply #17, the speaker should have asked first, rather than assuming they were according respect. And again, you really need to be cognizant of, and sensitive to, the local environment.

 

[Orodruin]

I don't want people mistakenly running to me when they need medical assistance.

Reminds me of:

- Is there a doctor on the plane!?
- I have a PhD in population statistics …
- This man is dying!!!!!
- Minus one …

 

[CrysPhys]

I actually have my standard pet response to calling a PhD a doctor. But I'm sure some would deem it at least insensitive, so I won't relate it.

 

[russ_watters]

My mother refers to me as "My son the doctor. But not the kind who helps anyone."

Does she not know of your work here?

 

[marcusl]

In a 40+ year career, no one referred to me (or to my PhD colleagues) as Dr. That changed when I took a job in aerospace. Not only do government customers address me as doctor, but I am introduced as such by my management because the government values having advanced expertise on a program. It takes some getting used to but is a nice perk for the effort I put in so long ago.

 

[FactChecker]

In a 40+ year career, no one referred to me (or to my PhD colleagues) as Dr. That changed when I took a job in aerospace. Not only do government customers address me as doctor, but I am introduced as such by my management because the government values having advanced expertise on a program. It takes some getting used to but is a nice perk for the effort I put in so long ago.

My experience was in aerospace and it was similar. This seems to confirm what others have said about being aware of the local traditions.