Postdoc in Particle Physics with a PhD in Nanoscience Nanotechnology

[Fernando Rios]

I already have a PhD in Nanoscience and Nanotechnology and I will start an M.S. in Physics at SJSU next Monday (August 21 2023). I am interested in Particle Physics. A professor at my institution working in the field told me the following "For you, since you already have a PhD, I don’t think it makes sense to get another PhD in particle physics. You should first seek postdoctoral research opportunities in areas with significant overlap with High Energy Physics." Is this possible?

 

[hutchphd]

All things are possible.
How did you decide to do the Masters at SJSU?

 

[Fernando Rios]

All things are possible.
How did you decide to do the Masters at SJSU?

Since I was at the end of my B.S. I wanted to get a degree in Physics and teach Physics at college. I found out the Master's program there accepts people with an Engineering background and its adimission process isn't to tough.

 

[hutchphd]

But you have a PhD in Nanotechnology. From where (if I may ask) and why did you get that degree?

 

[Fernando Rios]

But you have a PhD in Nanotechnology. From where (if I may ask) and why did you get that degree?

The degree is for my home country (Mexico). I got into that program because the advisor I worked with talked to me about Photoluminisence before starting my Master's program and I found it more interesting (more like Physics) than Mechanical Engineering (I got my B.S. in ME).

 

[Vanadium 50]

This is a different career than you wanted six weeks ago. As they say, "If you don't know where you are going, any path will take you there."

 

[Fernando Rios]

This is a different career than you wanted six weeks ago. As they say, "If you don't know where you are going, any path will take you there."

The thing is I want to teach Physics at a community college, but I am interested in Particle Physics (as a topic).

 

[Vanadium 50]

The thing is I want to teach Physics at a community college,

Then you don't need a postdoc.

 

[Fernando Rios]

Then you don't need a postdoc.

Wouldn't a postdoc increase my chances to get tenure at a community college?

 

[berkeman]

Wouldn't a postdoc increase my chances to get tenure at a community college?

I'm no expert, but I don't think I've ever seen the phrases "postdoc" and "community college" used in the same sentence, even in the way that you used them.

 

[Fernando Rios]

Do you think the PhD I already have combined with the M.S. in Physics I plan to get will increase my chances to get tenure at a community college?

 

[jedishrfu]

I think getting in and then teaching a bit will improve your chances. Also publishing papers can help a lot too. In the community college setting though many teachers may have only masters degrees in their field and so you by virtue of your PhD have a better starting position.

Years ago I had a PhD math prof at a fairly well known liberal arts college that was an excellent teacher but there was a movement in the math dept to get out of the pure teaching mode and get into math research with teaching on the side. Publishing papers showed you had that researcher potential. However, he focused on his teaching and not his papers and he didn't get tenure. Another prof who came later from another school did. Apparently for first time teachers it took 6 years before tenure consideration whereas for an experienced prof ie taught elsewhere it took only 3 years. Personally I liked both profs as they really helped me along as a physics major among senior math majors in algebraic topology, discrete math and calculus.

The students wer very upset by the college's actions and staged a walkout. The head of the math dept calmed them down with some BS reasoning about improving the standing of the math dept and the end result was the beloved teacher was let go. He later became the head of another math dept serving over 30 yrs and always had high ratings on Rate My Teachers.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Do you think the PhD I already have combined with the M.S. in Physics I plan to get will increase my chances to get tenure at a community college?

I think you already asked this on the other threads. I don't see the point of asking multiple times in multiple places.

 

[CrysPhys]

I already have a PhD in Nanoscience and Nanotechnology and I will start an M.S. in Physics at SJSU next Monday (August 21 2023). I am interested in Particle Physics. A professor at my institution working in the field told me the following "For you, since you already have a PhD, I don’t think it makes sense to get another PhD in particle physics. You should first seek postdoctoral research opportunities in areas with significant overlap with High Energy Physics." Is this possible?

If you do a search on "application of nanoscience and nanotechnology to particle physics", here's one item that pops up: https://www.nanowerk.com/nanotechnology-news2/newsid=51050.php. It concerns the use of nanotechnology to improve photodetectors used in experimental particle physics. This could be one avenue to get your foot in the door. You would be working on photodetectors, not particle physics per se. But you would have the opportunity to interact with particle physicists, and the rest would be up to you.

But as I wrote in one of your other threads, this is an extraordinary effort on your part to achieve the express end goal of a tenured position at a community college.

 

[gwnorth]

Years ago I had a PhD math prof at a fairly well known liberal arts college that was an excellent teacher but there was a movement in the math dept to get out of the pure teaching mode and get into math research with teaching on the side. Publishing papers showed you had that researcher potential. However, he focused on his teaching and not his papers and he didn't get tenure.

But that was at an LAC not a CC. The OP has indicated their goal is to teach at a CC. Do teaching positions at CCs have research expectations?

 

[Vanadium 50]

We're repeating the past thread - and I blame the OP, because he seems to feel that thge solution to not liking the answer is to ask the question again and again and again - but there are very few tenured positions at CCs. The backbone of CC instruction is part timers, often local high school teachers - and why not? They're part of the community too.

As I said the last time he asked - or maybe the time before that - there are no research expectations and the one (one!) tenured physics faculty is the chair and her job is to fill her staffing needs with part-timers.

The OP has made it clear that his plan is to out-credential hos competition, but his problem is that this strategy just emphasizes his Perpetual Student history. But if he wasn't convinced the first N times, will N+1 convince him?

 

[gwnorth]

We're repeating the past thread - and I blame the OP, because he seems to feel that the solution to not liking the answer is to ask the question again and again and again - but there are very few tenured positions at CCs. The backbone of CC instruction is part timers

I just came to write the same thing. Not only are most CC faculty not tenured, more and more they are strictly contract adjuncts. In any case the OP says they want to teach at CC but then keeps on finding ways to delay moving on to that role so I'm skeptical that that's actually their intended goal and that they want more than just being able to remain a perpetual student.

 

[Vanadium 50]

In any case the OP says they want to teach at CC but then keeps on finding ways to delay moving on to that role

That seems to be the case, yes.

that they want more than just being able to remain a perpetual student.

I can't speak to what he wants. I am more concerned with an application that says "Got a doctorate. Then I went somewhere else and got a masters. Then I went somewhere else and got another doctorate. Then I did a postdoc. Now I am 50 and I want to be a tenured professor at a place where real-world experience is ranked relatively highly."

This does not look like a path to success, but it is also not the first time he has been told this.

 

[Fernando Rios]

I think you already asked this on the other threads. I don't see the point of asking multiple times in multiple places.

What I actually asked in other threads was if getting a PhD in Physics would help me to get tenure at a community college, not if the PhD I already have would help me to achieve that goal.

 

[gwnorth]

A little late for that to be a consideration since you've already enrolled in a Physics master's. At what point do you actually intend to start applying for jobs? After another PhD and/or post-doc? How do you know that you couldn't have actually gotten the job you wanted with the PhD you already had? What research have you done into finding out where the positions you're looking for exist and what credentials they require?

 

[Fernando Rios]

A little late for that to be a consideration since you've already enrolled in a Physics master's. At what point do you actually intend to start applying for jobs? After another PhD and/or post-doc? How do you know that you couldn't have actually gotten the job you wanted with the PhD you already had? What research have you done into finding out where the positions you're looking for exist and what credentials they requir

The minimum requirements to teach Physics at a community college is an M.S. in Physics or a B.S. in Physics with an M.S. in a related field. If I conclude the program I will be able to teach at a community college. What I want to know is if having a PhD in Nanoscience and Nanotechnology from my home country could help me to get tenure.

 

[gwnorth]

Theoretically speaking should such a position exist. The issue that has been repeatedly communicated is that those types of positions don't typically exist at Community Colleges. Have you been able to identify any CC's that actually have TT Physics faculty?

 

[Fernando Rios]

Yes, I have seen some.

 

[Vanadium 50]

We're back to where we were.
Do you really expect a different answer to the same question which you ask over and over and over and over...?

It's clear you don't believe what you've been told. So why do you keep asking? (And asking and asking...)

 

[Fernando Rios]

We're back to where we were.
Do you really expect a different answer to the same question which you ask over and over and over and over...?

It's clear you don't believe what you've been told. So why do you keep asking? (And asking and asking...)

Have you seen this?:

https://collegeofsanmateo.edu/physics/faculty.asp

I guess it is clear you haven't.

 

[CrysPhys]

Have you seen this?:

https://collegeofsanmateo.edu/physics/faculty.asp

I guess it is clear you haven't.

Not all full-time faculty are tenured faculty. The website you cited lists 3 full-time faculty; it is silent on their tenure status.

 

[CrysPhys]

The minimum requirements to teach Physics at a community college is an M.S. in Physics or a B.S. in Physics with an M.S. in a related field. If I conclude the program I will be able to teach at a community college. What I want to know is if having a PhD in Nanoscience and Nanotechnology from my home country could help me to get tenure.

Do you have any geographical restrictions within the US, or are you willing to relocate anywhere within the US? Have you developed a candidate list of potential community colleges that have your target positions? Have you had informational discussions with the department heads there concerning what credentials and experiences would actually improve the odds of you attaining a target position?

 

[Fernando Rios]

Do you have any geographical restrictions within the US, or are you willing to relocate anywhere within the US? Have you developed a candidate list of potential community colleges that have your target positions? Have you had informational discussions with the department heads there concerning what credentials and experiences would actually improve the odds of you attaining a target position?

I am actually able to move anywhere within the US, but I would rather stay in California. I haven't developed a candidate list of potential community colleges.

 

[Fernando Rios]

Not all full-time faculty are tenured faculty. The website you cited lists 3 full-time faculty; it is silent on their tenure status.

A full-time position would be enough for me. I actually thought tenure and full time were the same.

 

[CrysPhys]

A full-time position would be enough for me. I actually thought tenure and full time were the same.

I am actually able to move anywhere within the US, but I would rather stay in California. I haven't developed a candidate list of potential community colleges.

Wow. With all the time and money you're expending on achieving your target position, you really should do your homework on understanding what your target position is.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Agreed.

Further, if your goal is to teach, your plan is to spend the next ~12 years doing what? Not teaching. When you say "Teaching is my passion, which is why I avoided it for more than a decade" what will they say?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Have you seen this?...I guess it is clear you haven't.

I am going to chalk up the tone to a lack of facility with English and not anything to do with your character.

But let's assume this data point is typical. I'm sure it was cherry-picked, but we'll call it typical. San Mateo College has one full-time physics professor per 2500 students. There are about 5 million community college students in the US, so that makes 2000 or so full-time faculty. There are about 1500 community colleges in the US, so the average number of full time faculty is about 1.3.

And what have we been saying? "it's about 1". Your own example confirms it.

Further, how many positions open per year? Well, 5M students means 2000 faculty. Assuming a 25 year career for faculty, that gives about 80.

That's how competitive this is. And your strategy of "ignore what they are looking for and spend 12 more years not teaching" is not likely to beat the competition. You want a job like this? Take the entry-level jobs of part-time instructor and work your way up like everybody else. Don't count on a fistful of degrees impressing anyone. Or get a certificate and teach high school and build up your experience.

 

[jtbell]

You want a job like this? Take the entry-level jobs of part-time instructor and work your way up like everybody else.

When I finished grad school in the mid 1980s, I wasn't looking for community-college positions, but rather for positions at 4-year colleges where teaching was the main focus, like the college where I had been an undergraduate. Back then (don't know about now), "visiting assistant professor" positions were fairly common, usually for one year, filling in for faculty who were on sabbatical. In my first job search, I focused on those. I got lucky and landed a two-year position, filling in for two consecutive sabbaticals. It was a full-time position, with health insurance and a retirement plan, which you don't usually get with adjunct positions.

In my next job search, I focused on tenure-track positions, with visiting positions as a fallback, and got lucky again, at the college where I ended up retiring from.

In both searches, the competition was stiff, on the order of 100 applications per position. (The same was true for a search that I supervised as department chairman, in the mid 1990s, at my non-elite college). So I took it for granted that I would need to move, and I wouldn't have much control over where to. I ended up moving from Michigan to upstate New York to South Carolina.

So I wouldn't expect to be able to stay in California for a tenure-track position, even though California is big enough to be almost a separate country.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Caifornia has 10% or so of the US population, so instead of 80 target positions per year it will be more like 8.

 

[jtbell]

In both searches, the competition was stiff, on the order of 100 applications per position.

Schools normally interview three candidates per position. In each search, I was invited for two interviews, and received one offer. So I had no choice in location, unless I decided to look for a different kind of job instead.