Powered Personal Armors: Engineering Possibilities

[GTOM]

While i don't want to come up with exact engineering details about theese things in my story, but i wondered about a few things.
Does it make some sense to have some kind of metallic-hydrid as fuel (like KaH )? The point would be the ability to provide both a slow reaction for producing electricity (that can be stored in capacitators), and burning for high performance.
I also wondered about handling what comes out from the soldier inside. Is the only realistic option to store it in a small tank, or could it worth reprocessing? (He can't be built into the armor, that also limits engineering possibilities)

 

[jedishrfu]

However you decide, it just has to be plausible.

Adding stuff means more weight.

Making it more complex means making it harder to fix in the field.

Requiring a lot of power means more weight, recharging ...

Wearing it for long periods means more power and what to do about eating and elimination.

Each of these problems and solutions can lead to interesting storylines. The wearer could complain about some design flaw or things could fail under select conditions requiring a jury rigged repair.

Anyway you get the idea. Its all up to you and your imagination. Dont get hung up on making it too plausible.

 

[member 656954]

Is your time setting some ways downstream, or not much further along from now?

Some ways downstream gives you latitude to go all out on high-tech battle armor that we could not possibly create with the current state of the art.

Around now means more restraint less you trigger the Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot response in the mind of your reader.

But I agree with @jedishrfu that 'plausible' is a critical story trait, which includes not making the armor 'magical'. By which I mean, it keeps showing ever more amazing capabilities in response to the situation that miraculously keeps the protagonist alive. Such as a sudden ability to refrigerate the occupant when a napalm-equivalent gel hits the wearer and pushes the ambient temperature up two-thousand degrees.

The offensive and defensive abilities should match what personal armor would be expected to endure, because even if it's built of future-tech unobtanium, everything else will be as well, so that tank round amazingly stopped by the instantaneous kinetic energy repeller field that springs into action will have been designed to penetrate such local defenses with an equally unobtanium-busting design.

 

[GTOM]

Is your time setting some ways downstream, or not much further along from now?

Some ways downstream gives you latitude to go all out on high-tech battle armor that we could not possibly create with the current state of the art.

Around now means more restraint less you trigger the Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot response in the mind of your reader.

But I agree with @jedishrfu that 'plausible' is a critical story trait, which includes not making the armor 'magical'. By which I mean, it keeps showing ever more amazing capabilities in response to the situation that miraculously keeps the protagonist alive. Such as a sudden ability to refrigerate the occupant when a napalm-equivalent gel hits the wearer and pushes the ambient temperature up two-thousand degrees.

The offensive and defensive abilities should match what personal armor would be expected to endure, because even if it's built of future-tech unobtanium, everything else will be as well, so that tank round amazingly stopped by the instantaneous kinetic energy repeller field that springs into action will have been designed to penetrate such local defenses with an equally unobtanium-busting design.

Age is, i would say XXII century, with some optimism about fusion rockets and colonization.
I don't think about such protection as Ilrang The Wolf Brigade (korean action movie), but it should be able to stop most shrapnels (except AP spikes launched by directed explosion of a smart grenade) and common bullets. A more serious version would be a mini mecha with tank like abilities, cannon/railgun on the top, machine guns on arms, point range defence (shotguns) on body.

 

[member 656954]

it should be able to stop most shrapnels (except AP spikes launched by directed explosion of a smart grenade) and common bullets. A more serious version would be a mini mecha with tank like abilities.

Seems like you've worked out your answer, though now I'm confused as to what you were originally asking!

Still, if your armor really is static like this suggests, then it does not need much tech, more an line discussion about the materials used to make it. Perhaps via reference to a soldier being saved by it, rather than an exposition about a "nanolayered carbon-ammonia substrate with a non-Newtonian flex response". Or some such...

 

[GTOM]

Seems like you've worked out your answer, though now I'm confused as to what you were originally asking!

Still, if your armor really is static like this suggests, then it does not need much tech, more an line discussion about the materials used to make it. Perhaps via reference to a soldier being saved by it, rather than an exposition about a "nanolayered carbon-ammonia substrate with a non-Newtonian flex response". Or some such...

I asked about possible power source (it can be mentioned in the story, i would like to note that infantry warfare still dominated by kinetics, so simply say energy cell isn't good enough)
Also about waste disposal.

 

[member 656954]

infantry warfare still dominated by kinetics, so simply say energy cell isn't good enough

Why? if you're that far downstream, it's unlikely that a civilization with fusion power and colonization would need to be using "some kind of metallic-hydrid as fuel" for personal armor. Working fusion power makes electricity ubiquitous (and really, to get that far downstream with a working civilization, we've cracked renewables as well, so energy should already be ubiquitious) so some kind of supercapacitor is more likely than KaH. Hydrogen is not energy dense for the volume, which is why H2 fuel cell cars are worse than BEV, you need to put a lot of energy into the fuel processing, it's entirely ineffecient and what type of on-board electrical generation are you expecting anyway? That's really complicated engineering and won't survive combat! Make a carbon nanotube energy cell, charge it up from your fusion plant, and you've enough detail for a sci-fi story, surely.

Plus, it's not clear what the fuel is powering - I assumed mechanized body armor because of the post title and your question, and then you noted shrapnel, so why bother with powering it? That far downstream, passive materials science advances will deal with shrapnel.

Also about waste disposal.

Have you ever read a story that covers this in detail? Also, you are now describing some kind of mech, not so much armor, because armor you just chuck off to go to the toilet...or it has flaps. But seriously, how much detail do you need for this? Readers won't thank you for more than a passing reference to waste disposal - getting into the nitty gritty is unnecessary unless your plot hinges on it, in which case, reconsider your plot

 

[sandy stone]

Yes,I don't recall any such mention in "Starship Troopers".

 

[GTOM]

Why? if you're that far downstream, it's unlikely that a civilization with fusion power and colonization would need to be using "some kind of metallic-hydrid as fuel" for personal armor. Working fusion power makes electricity ubiquitous (and really, to get that far downstream with a working civilization, we've cracked renewables as well, so energy should already be ubiquitious) so some kind of supercapacitor is more likely than KaH. Hydrogen is not energy dense for the volume, which is why H2 fuel cell cars are worse than BEV, you need to put a lot of energy into the fuel processing, it's entirely ineffecient and what type of on-board electrical generation are you expecting anyway? That's really complicated engineering and won't survive combat! Make a carbon nanotube energy cell, charge it up from your fusion plant, and you've enough detail for a sci-fi story, surely.

Plus, it's not clear what the fuel is powering - I assumed mechanized body armor because of the post title and your question, and then you noted shrapnel, so why bother with powering it? That far downstream, passive materials science advances will deal with shrapnel.
Have you ever read a story that covers this in detail? Also, you are now describing some kind of mech, not so much armor, because armor you just chuck off to go to the toilet...or it has flaps. But seriously, how much detail do you need for this? Readers won't thank you for more than a passing reference to waste disposal - getting into the nitty gritty is unnecessary unless your plot hinges on it, in which case, reconsider your plot

The point is that no fusion power on the field. A ship is the smallest thing that have such a reactor. If a carbon nanotube capacitator is enough, why no lasers?
The armor is motorised, it don't have energy shields.
Yeah, actually i read a book dealing with various alien civilizations. And the mecha had toilet.
It is a more difficult case in a simple armor.

 

[member 656954]

The armor is motorised, it don't have energy shields.

Have you figured out the extent of the motors? Is this an exoskeleton concept? Fully enclosed? How much load can they bear? You seem to have an idea in your mind, what does it look like?

Soldiers don't tend to carry a toilet around on patrol or in battle, but may have specially prepared Ziploc bags - a WAG bag - that has biodegradable odor neutralizers, and are by necessity tougher than the usual Ziploc bag. Other waste management methods mostly involve digging holes! Apart from that, you would need to create a high-tech solution for your story that does not currently exists because everything today is very straightforward.

If a carbon nanotube capacitator is enough, why no lasers?

I did not mention lasers - or lack thereof - but I'd expect them, why wouldn't they be available? But if you want armor powered by metal-hydrides, do it that way. It will make sense as a fuel if you make it make sense in the story, which is the situation will all this tech. So long as you are consistent and don't introduce 'magic' features that just appear out of nowhere to save the protagonist from harm, a plugged in canister of KaH forms a great plot device to add tension when they run out or need to be scavenged from the suits of fallen comrades.

 

[GTOM]

Have you figured out the extent of the motors? Is this an exoskeleton concept? Fully enclosed? How much load can they bear? You seem to have an idea in your mind, what does it look like?

Soldiers don't tend to carry a toilet around on patrol or in battle, but may have specially prepared Ziploc bags - a WAG bag - that has biodegradable odor neutralizers, and are by necessity tougher than the usual Ziploc bag. Other waste management methods mostly involve digging holes! Apart from that, you would need to create a high-tech solution for your story that does not currently exists because everything today is very straightforward.
I did not mention lasers - or lack thereof - but I'd expect them, why wouldn't they be available? But if you want armor powered by metal-hydrides, do it that way. It will make sense as a fuel if you make it make sense in the story, which is the situation will all this tech. So long as you are consistent and don't introduce 'magic' features that just appear out of nowhere to save the protagonist from harm, a plugged in canister of KaH forms a great plot device to add tension when they run out or need to be scavenged from the suits of fallen comrades.

I don't think that man portable killer lasers would suit my setting, since no small fusion, and ship combat also don't rely only on lasers.
Wag bag with odor neutraliser ok, seems fine.
Yes the armor should cover the whole body, it has to carry its own weight, small missiles, big guns. I think the motor should be like a small backpack. It should be able to accept field charges, no long time for reload a battery or capacitator.

 

[member 656954]

I don't think that man portable killer lasers would suit my setting,

Be careful ignoring obvious worldview consequences in your plot.

It is not unreasonable for a reader to expect portable lasers if you have powered armor, because the power requirements moving a solider + armor is going to exceed an IR burst laser designed to blind or confuse combatants, or even drill through weak spots in the armor (anywhere that flexes is going to be a target).

Beyond portable lasers, the US Army has already demonstrated a mobile laser platform that can shoot down drones and mortar rounds. Imagine that tech in a century, it's going to be smaller, more powerful, and way less expensive.

I think the motor should be like a small backpack.

I am not sure what this means? Why would there be a central motor, each joint will have its own high-torque electric motor, surely?

 

[GTOM]

Be careful ignoring obvious worldview consequences in your plot.

It is not unreasonable for a reader to expect portable lasers if you have powered armor, because the power requirements moving a solider + armor is going to exceed an IR burst laser designed to blind or confuse combatants, or even drill through weak spots in the armor (anywhere that flexes is going to be a target).

Beyond portable lasers, the US Army has already demonstrated a mobile laser platform that can shoot down drones and mortar rounds. Imagine that tech in a century, it's going to be smaller, more powerful, and way less expensive.
I am not sure what this means? Why would there be a central motor, each joint will have its own high-torque electric motor, surely?

So instead of a central motor that moves different parts, there should be lots of small motors at the joints. Okay makes sense. But their capacitators should be still charged from a central unit, that accepts the field charge.

Drill through isn't good enough you need instakill. But you made me wonder, that kill drones with a powerful enough laser is cheaper than fire laser guided bullets.
Although focusing mirror overheat and fragility are still problems.

 

[member 656954]

It would be worthwhile reading the US Army's Future Warfare white paper because it is highly unlikely soldiers in battle armor are going to be fighting wars on the timescale you are writing about. Drones will do most of the work, and AIs will be directing them. Humans are slow, expensive, and damage prone compared to autonomous weapons platforms, so we will be relegated to strategy and oversight.

Although focusing mirror overheat and fragility are still problems

Yes, but less so with fiber lasers. And even less so with the tech available to you in the future. I'm wondering if you need to deliberately constrain the technology in your novel, because you are not forecasting much 'future stuff' in your thoughts. If you want to write a novel that is not much further along than we are today, it would pay to think of some event or economic reason for this.

Otherwise, consider warfare across the last century. In WWI troops were slogging it out in mud filled trenches, with tanks and planes playing secondary roles. Soldiers died by the millions and even more were wounded. Fast forward eighty-odd years to the Iraqi War, and look at the casualty figures. Sure, the theater of war was smaller, but advances in tech meant that air power ruled, fire power from a distance was possible, and military casualties were many orders of magnitude lower, even accounting for the geographic area in play.

Why wouldn't such advances continue to the 'when' of your story?

 

[GTOM]

It would be worthwhile reading the US Army's Future Warfare white paper because it is highly unlikely soldiers in battle armor are going to be fighting wars on the timescale you are writing about. Drones will do most of the work, and AIs will be directing them. Humans are slow, expensive, and damage prone compared to autonomous weapons platforms, so we will be relegated to strategy and oversight.
Yes, but less so with fiber lasers. And even less so with the tech available to you in the future. I'm wondering if you need to deliberately constrain the technology in your novel, because you are not forecasting much 'future stuff' in your thoughts. If you want to write a novel that is not much further along than we are today, it would pay to think of some event or economic reason for this.

Otherwise, consider warfare across the last century. In WWI troops were slogging it out in mud filled trenches, with tanks and planes playing secondary roles. Soldiers died by the millions and even more were wounded. Fast forward eighty-odd years to the Iraqi War, and look at the casualty figures. Sure, the theater of war was smaller, but advances in tech meant that air power ruled, fire power from a distance was possible, and military casualties were many orders of magnitude lower, even accounting for the geographic area in play.

Why wouldn't such advances continue to the 'when' of your story?

Regular military mostly use drones in the first lines, the role of human soldiers is mixed with police. (Colonial force on Mars)

In my first story there won't be a regular war, but fight between maffia like organisations.
Combat robots are very carefully traced by law.
Although i show that trained humans in combat armor pretty much able to face drones. (So both the drones both the combat armors were obtained, manufactured illegally by the characters. )

Air rules out x-ray uv-c lasers, longer wavelengths can be more efficiently reflected.
Maybe there should be a line, where arms smuggler demonstrate his missiles are so immune to laser.

 

[member 656954]

In my first story there won't be a regular war, but fight between maffia like organisations.

OK, now I see where you are coming from. That gives you lots of room for 'low tech' solutions, with improvised armor and high failure rates, should be fun.

Though Mafia-like presumably means urban environments - no point trying to extort money from people who aren't there - so I'm wondering why they would need bodily waste management?

 

[GTOM]

OK, now I see where you are coming from. That gives you lots of room for 'low tech' solutions, with improvised armor and high failure rates, should be fun.

Though Mafia-like presumably means urban environments - no point trying to extort money from people who aren't there - so I'm wondering why they would need bodily waste management?

There will be a chase scene through the forests, that takes long enough time to care about urine. (There can be also situations like attack a drug lab hidden in the jungle)
Otherwise technology either comes from civilan applications (like space suits) or improvised based on military blueprints, so that part isn't necessary omitted.