Rape by Deception in Israel: Sabbar Kashur's Story

[arunma]

I agree with Evo that worse stuff than this happens in the Middle East. But at the same time, we can't simply excuse bad behavior by pointing to worse behavior. Israel is basically funded by America. Whether or not you think this is a good thing, I think this at least entitles us to some say in how they treat their people over there. This is a highly racist verdict. "Rape by deception" is not rape at all, and only minimizes real rape.

I hate to say this, but I sometimes have to look at the middle east with surprise that any place can be that backward.

 

[Pattonias]

I agree with Evo that worse stuff than this happens in the Middle East. But at the same time, we can't simply excuse bad behavior by pointing to worse behavior. Israel is basically funded by America. Whether or not you think this is a good thing, I think this at least entitles us to some say in how they treat their people over there. This is a highly racist verdict. "Rape by deception" is not rape at all, and only minimizes real rape.

I hate to say this, but I sometimes have to look at the middle east with surprise that any place can be that backward.

Is this really a good example though? This easily could have happened in the United States. Instead it would be "He said he was a doctor, but it turns out he works the gas station I met him at. He tricked me!"

 

[Werg22]

Is this really a good example though? This easily could have happened in the United States. Instead it would be "He said he was a doctor, but it turns out he works the gas station I met him at. He tricked me!"

I don't think the man in that hypothetical scenario would have been convicted, however. This isn't about the silliness of the charge, but the silliness of the verdict.

 

[Evo]

I don't think the man in that hypothetical scenario would have been convicted, however. This isn't about the silliness of the charge, but the silliness of the verdict.

Surely he can appeal? I must say that I don't agree with the verdict if the reports are accurate.

 

[Office_Shredder]

In at least one article about this his lawyer said they planned on appealing

 

[Office_Shredder]

That's completely irrelevant to the thread

 

[cronxeh]

That's completely irrelevant to the thread

Yea! What the heck is that. I was expecting to see raping and pillaging

 

[mheslep]

That's completely irrelevant to the thread

Yes you're right (deleted), though I wish someone had said so initially in response to #11.

 

[cesiumfrog]

Surely he can appeal?

Supposedly he's already been under house arrest for two years.

Yes you're right (deleted), though I wish someone had said so initially in response to #11.

Huh?

 

[mheslep]

Supposedly he's already been under house arrest for two years.
Huh?

Just the first couple sentences, OT:

If you're in the US then you're pretty much responsible for the ongoing excess power of the Israeli government.[...]

 

[cesiumfrog]

mheslep, that was in direct response to Evo's question of whether "we" are in a place to judge. #36 echoes the same.

I think Evo meant to question whether or not one culture can judge another (and which culture's values it should do so using). Relativism, right? But clearly there is no such problem with using one's own cultural values to judge whether you approve of the effects which are resulting from continuing active support by your own society.

The incident seems to be more abhorrent to our eyes than most Israelis'. I guess the question is whether it is representative and indicative of Israel's treatment of humans (Arabs) in their region, or whether it is representative merely of crazy outlier court verdicts worldwide (maybe it really was a rape and this was just a ploy to ensure a conviction). At any rate, if those courts were overconcerned with the appearance of justice being done despite expected bias, you wouldn't be surprised by a verdict that she also raped-by-deception him.

 

[arunma]

Is this really a good example though? This easily could have happened in the United States. Instead it would be "He said he was a doctor, but it turns out he works the gas station I met him at. He tricked me!"

I suppose that is the most direct analogy. I'm sure this happens all the time. Whatever this is, it's not criminal and it certainly isn't rape. I find it hard to believe that this sort of verdict is tolerated in a supposed bastion of civilization in the middle east.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I suppose that is the most direct analogy. I'm sure this happens all the time. Whatever this is, it's not criminal and it certainly isn't rape. I find it hard to believe that this sort of verdict is tolerated in a supposed bastion of civilization in the middle east.

Israel is not perfect, but it is better than it's neighbors in this regard. It is a poor judge who cannot see this.

 

[Danger]

Hypothetically speaking, can I have an ex-girlfriend thrown in jail because she told me that she was a "nice person"?

Perhaps not, but it has gotten me out from under a couple of alimony payments.

Truth be told, I'm having a bit of trouble keeping track of this crap.
The simple fact of the matter is that there are no such things as "human rights" aside from those imparted by a given political/social structure.

edit: I'm going to blame this on the alcohol; I began composing this as a follow-up to post #11. It took me a tad longer than I anticipated.

 

[Pattonias]

Truth be told, I'm having a bit of trouble keeping track of this crap.
The simple fact of the matter is that there are no such things as "human rights" aside from those imparted by a given political/social structure.

Isn't that kind of what human rights are? If there was no political/social structure there would be no way of defining and then enforcing "human rights".

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Isn't that kind of what human rights are? If there was no political/social structure there would be no way of defining and then enforcing "human rights".

There are those, particularly politicians and rights activists, that would argue that "human rights" are universal.

 

[Pattonias]

There are those, particularly politicians and rights activists, that would argue that "human rights" are universal.

Unfortunatly, those rights are only extended to those with a means of enforcing their defence.

 

[Danger]

Isn't that kind of what human rights are? If there was no political/social structure there would be no way of defining and then enforcing "human rights".

My point exactly. In the absence of a sociopolitical structure which defines and enforces them, such do not exist.
Stats, you are pointing out the same thing. Those who argue that human rights are universal are members of a structure that seeks to impose their opinions. Ideally, that assertion comes from a sense of outrage that is felt when someone is abused; more typically, it arises as part of a political agenda intended to extend the power of those who are protesting the inequity.
Our ancestors didn't become the dominant species on the planet by being nice. They arose by killing anything that was perceived as either a threat or a food source. "Human rights" began as, and continue to be, a bribe by those in power. It's an extrapolation of the old feudal system. You serve me and provide me with sustenance, and I will field an army (to which you might be called to serve) in aid of your protection. Strength in numbers. The more people there are in a group, the stronger it is. Hence nations and armies. Those enforce (or try to) whatever "rights" they consider appropriate for their citizens.
"Human rights" are strictly a construct that a nation grants in return for the loyalty of its subjects.